[deannatrois]

I have had an allotment two whole weeks so am a newbie on the site.  Its an LA managed allotment.

Now, I want to buy a polytunnel as soon as I have the funds.  I have been told there is a size restriction, that I need permission to erect a polytunnel from the council.  The allotment co-ordinator told me to speak to the site secretary about permission, she referred me back to him as he is the one who represents the council. When I spoke to the site secretary today I made some joke as to not being able to afford a tunnel right now because of an income mess up (that is never ending right now but will be sorted in the next week).., but it was a joke.  The allotment co-ordinator mailed me and said that I had told the secretary I wasn't going to erect one in the near future (like never).  Oh gawd help me lol.

I have asked exactly what is the size restriction.  Three emails later I still haven't got any measurements.  I was told 'the same as the one on my neighbours plot'.., problem is lol.., I know he's increased the size hoping no one will notice lol. Is there actually not a measurement restriction.., it depends on whoever is the allotment co-ordinator at the council?  How do I find out without annoying everyone so much I get thrown off the plot?

I have also said why is there such a small measurement allowed.  In this present more eco conscious times, a small tunnel allows u to propogate seedling but not much else (I'm thinking the smallest size like 8x6ft but I don't actually know what the restriction is).  I'd like to have a couple of beds in there that would allow me to grow some carbon footprint expensive (less hardy) produce as well.  I've been told that the present restrictions (whatever they are) exist to stop allotments looking built up.  I tried to point out 1) as a polytunnel can be put up and erecting in less than a day its not really a permanent structure 2) they are see through and low in height so not exactly impeding of light to surrounding houses so how can it make an allotment look built up 3)It would be a cost free way of enabling the council to encourage the more eco conscious culture their recycling initiatives profess to encourage. (and lets not forget that current size restrictions (whatever they are) were probably set in the 1940's.., for reasons that might not be considered as important as the ones I have raised now if actually discussed).

I asked if I could be referred onto policy makers to discuss this with them. The Co-ordinator just said that he did not believe policy would be changed.  I distinctly heard a door shoot in the email lol.

Believe it or not, I am not a trouble maker and I was a lot more diplomatic in the mail than I have been on here.., but how do I deal with this?  Should I just forget it, get a polytunnel and hope to gawd its not too big.., and accept I can't get a discussion going?

[mumofstig]

e-mail the allotment coordinator at the council and ask for the size allowed, and permission to erect one, so you get it in writing. Simples.

I wouldn't push your luck by asking for a bigger one, you don't want to upset everybody before you've even settled in, do you 

[SarahB]

If it's a council-run allotment, have a look on the council's website - there should be some information about allotments there, and there may be the full list of rules and regs.  Worth checking!

[woodburner]

Is your neighbour's not big enough?.Seems to me (unless I misread) that you have permision to build one as big as his, whatever size that was at the time of permission being given.

[iggyboy]

I will be noted as a trouble maker myself for this,but sometimes people with a bit of 'power' tend to let it go to their respective heads. Council run anything,is by definition,a red tape pile of nonsense! We are self governed and this means a much more relaxed atmosphere. Although I am sure there are some really good council run allotments,I much prefare our way of running the show,plus we are not robbed blind with extortionate rents! The overall size for a greenhouse/polytunnel is a maximum of 120sq ft. This will be, in plain english,a 12ftx10ft home for your plants/seedlings. Sounds to me your with a numpty setup,get yourself on another waiting list and just put up with the nerds until you see a brighter day! PS I make no apology for my comments herein

[Yorkie]

No apology needed iggyboy   

Glad to hear your site arrangements work so well.

As you say, there will always be good and bad examples of the council and self-run sites.  We've had agonised posters here from self-managed sites where they are autocracies rather than democracies, run by narrow-minded people set in the past and not willing to give anyone else a say or tolerate different ways of doing things.  It takes all sorts 

But the least that anyone can expect is consistent and clear application of whatever proportionate rules apply.

[bailey]

as suggested I would try and speak with the council direct...

as a possible defence for the commitee though, I have been in a similar situation though not allotment where we had to have a commitee so that the group could run,, but alot of people either don,t have time, the energy or simply don,t want to give up there time for free, at times you end up with a half hearted commitee who are only doing it cos the group would not run without it,,  the group I was involved in took several hours of admin work each week, and time spent chasing council and education dept took hours as they don,t seem to rush especially when it comes down to volunteer groups...

its not an easy job, its time consuming and frustrating.

the comitee though maybe should have a clear set of rules that everyone has a copy of,,

[Livinhope]

We are blessed with our LA, providing the plot is tidy, and obviously being used, they are so lenient they allow virtually anything. AND chickens (which they apparently have to by law).  One of our chaps rescues ex-battery hens and gives them a darn good life and we  bung in a bucket of weeds most days.  With an LA like this it makes for a much more relaxed atmosphere all over.  Sorry you aren't in the same position.  e.g.  Elderly gent next to us has a poly 20 foot long by 10 foot wide.

[Irene]

mumofstig is absolutely correct.

Do not, and I can't stress this strongly enough, DO NOT invest in a polytunnel without having something in writing.

If you cannot obtain a specific measurement in writing then might I suggest playing around with correspondence such as this:

Gentlepersons:

I am an allotment holder at ____________.

While planning the erection of a polytunnel to aid me in maximizing my allotments production and usefulness I have experienced some frustration finding out exactly what size of polytunnel is permissable on my holding.

While not being able to discover a specific measurement I was instructed by _________, during a telephone discussion on  _____, ___, 2010 that I was allowed to build a polytunnel the same size as an allotment holder on a neighboring plot. That polytunnel, measured on _____,____, 2010, has dimensions of ____x ____x____.

It is of utmost importance to me that I follow the allotment rules and maintain my standing as a good tenant and credit to my allotment community.

If I do not receive a correction within thirty (30) days I will plan and install my polytunnel according to Mr/Ms's representations as stated above. Please understand I will stay strictly within the above dimensions' confines.

I look forward to a response in the near future.

Kindest Regards,


__________________

Make sure you mail your letter to the allotment authority as a whole and also to each and every individual you have spoken with individually.

If you decide to mail your form of the above make sure at all times that you are respectful, pleasant and courteous....and I agree with the other posters...do not, as a new holder, try to stretch the rules by asking to build something larger than what is "allowed", whatever that may be.

Good luck.

[deannatrois]

So far I have been speaking to the allotment co-ordinator (who is the council person) and the allotment secretary (who is an allotment holder).

Yes i do agree that my difficulty in getting precise measurements is probably down to the fact that they are not written down anywhere.  There is just a vague understanding that the size should be restricted so the plots don't look 'built up' according to the documents i have received.  But as has been pointed out, this leaves me on very shakey ground as far as if someone takes a dislike to me, I could be asked to remove the polytunnel because its too big even tho I haven't been told how big it should be.

I suspect that a lot of the allotment holders are quite casual in their approach and this works for them. I have definitely got the 'she's playing word games' comments because I am trying to get this in writing and get the council to see that it makes sense from an ecological point of view to allow us polytunnels big enough to grow less hardy crops that u'd normally have to buy.., as well as seedlings. I guess, nice as they are, this viewpoint is seen as kindof 'doublespeak' on my part.  I am however, very commited to using an allotment to not only vent my wish to grow some of my own food but to save on food miles if I can.

Oh well lol. Unfortunately I can't relocate because I don't drive and have a four year old, which makes a plot round the corner ideal.., I can just take him with me or allow him to play locally knowing they know where I am. I must admit the set up is getting on my nerves slightly but I think I'll just have to concentrate on how kind the other plot holders have been and once I can drive, think again (if I ever get together the damn insurance for the car so I can learn lol).

BTW iggy, I'd give the earth to be allowed a 12x8ft polytunnel. It looks as if the max is 8x6ft here lol and i don't view that as big enough for more than a good seedling propogation area. I guess I'll have to have one side as seedling propogation area and the other as a long bed for less hardy plants.

[mumofstig]

build yourself a waist high bench/shelf thats open beneath....then it's potting, seedlings etc all on the bench top and growing space below........that's how my 6 x 8 greenhouse works.

Most seed sowing and seedlings really don't need to be in the greenhouse anyway, only the half hardy stuff, so you need less space than you might think.
Lots of the plotholders here manage with the really small polythene greenhouses you can buy anywhere, or just coldframes. 

[deannatrois]

Yes, while I was digging endlessly today (think I have half the stones of the world in this allotment plot  - its been rotivated but never ever dug properly - I know this because I can see all the layers lol).., I did a lot of thinking and I decided I will do as the council allotment co-ordinator suggested.., put a polytunnel in the size of my neighbours.  Yes its bigger than it should be but I should be covered as they told me it was ok.  Might give him some legitimacy as well.

What I've decided to do is have one side for seedlings etc.., and the other side for beds.  I am an unashamed newbie and have no idea what effect growing tomatoes in a polytunnel will have (rather than outside), and I'd like to actually get a chilli plant to produce chillies (in spite of my best effort two years running I have yet to see a single chilli) same for things like peppers. It will teach me a lot.  And its the sort of food I eat a lot of (spend a fortune on peppers even the cheapest). There's quite a few things I'd like to grow in a polytunnel rather than buy in the shops.

It does annoy me that it seems to have been decided that I am just using the eco argument to manipulate the situation but nothing I can do about that. I have been a bit nieve.., what u see is what u get with me lolol.., and it looks like the site secretary and the allotment co-ordinator are more aligned than I expected.  I joked with the site secretary that if a financial situation I had problems with wasn't sorted out, I'd never get a polytunnel (purely an ironic type joke).  Hours later I got a mail from the allotment co-ordinator saying he'd been told by her that I wasn't going to get a polytunnel in the near future.
/me grinds teeth hard lol!

And maybe, in a couple of years I will look for a plot somewhere that will allow me to be more eco conscious instead of laughed at.., who knows lol?

[Togalosh]

Brum city council has all that sort of info on it's website - yours might too.

Our max size is 10 x 8ft subject to approval..But only one per person - so if you have 2 plots you can still only have 1 Polytunnel and either a polytunnel OR greenhouse - not both. Same thing with a shed - 1 per person...not sure if they would bulldoze one if you inherited 2...

The busy bodies who write these $£"^*& rules should be bound up to a ploe with their own roll of red tape n put out to scare the birds off my brassicas 

When I was questioned about 20+ massive pallets I'd plonked down in preporation for building a shed I said I'd spotted a loop hole in the regs. It says 8 x 6 foot print..but nothing about height so I'm building upward...they are keeping an eye on proceedings>

 

[deannatrois]

Its going from bad to worse lol.  Now height is a problem.  We as plot holders are not allowed anything above 6ft 6.., (so maybe I'll move to Brum).., my neighbour is being forced to shorten his polytunnel ( inspite of the fact that its solid clay a foot down)., and apparently the allotment co-ordinator is coming on site with a clip board to measure all structures and order any offending structures removed.

Apparently the council installed sheds and toilets, in spite of being a foot above the restrictions., are safe.

The allotment co-ordinator won't speak to plot holders now (and he's not answering my emails).., he's relaying everything thru the site secretary.  I have been summoned to a meeting on the site with the site secretary and I suspect I am about to lose my plot.

I have gotten a councillor involved cause this seems ridiculous. Petty beaurocracy at its worst.

[Livinhope]

Have you got a decent MP.  They are there to help their constituents.