Please, not another one going the same way!

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Catsmuvva

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Please, not another one going the same way!
« on: May 29, 2010, 19:49 »
Another of my ex-bats may be going the same way as Lady G and Spike as she has developed the runs and seems to be getting a "hot water bottle" squashy undercarriage. As with the previous 2, Betty hasn't laid for some time, since before Christmas in fact, and has just been enjoying her freedom. She's about 2 1/2, having been rescued last year at 18 months. She's still got a good appetite at the moment but has slowed down and spends more time lagging behind or staying put when the others go haring off around the garden. She's also more into being handled, happy for me to pick her up so she can perch on my arm for a wander.
I really don't want to lose another girl to ignorance, if it is something I'm doing/not doing. The last 2 times the vets could only come up with the fact that ex-bats often get run down & develop mystery ailments due to their initial intensively productive lives but is there something else afoot? A neighbour's inlaws who keep chickens have suggested a drop or two of kaolin & morphine a day and although her droppings aren't as watery as they were, they're still not right, lots of loose urates and hardly any solids, most of which is greenish.
Can anyone help, please? Thanks, Anne.

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dizzylizzie

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 20:28 »
Hi, im sorry but that sounds like  cop out on your vets part!  Swelling could either be peritonitus or ascities. Both of which are not really good news :( Try your best to get her to a vet ASAP. As for the watery poo, has she been wormed recently?....also its been very warm lately, has she been drinking alot, or maybe not eating enough?-sorry i cant be more help, if she was mine, she would be at the vets first thing ;)

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Catsmuvva

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 22:16 »
Thanks dizzylizzie, I'm reluctant to take my girls in at the drop of a hat in case it's something or nothing but, coming from you, that's advice I'll take as if I remember right you've had experience with ex-bats.
I've checked out your suggestions in the Chicken Health Handbook and it doesn't seem to be ascites. I can't find any mention of peritonitis but checking symptoms further I'm disturbed to find "watery white diarrhea later becoming thick & greenish yellow, bluish comb" under cholera! (she has a bluish tinge on her comb extremities) Sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, we can imagine the worst when it really isn't that bad. Mind you, I won't be the first to be paranoid about my girls.
She certainly isn't off her food - I brought her inside earlier today to dry off as she was a sodden huddle standing in the middle of the garden and gave her some watery porridge with mealworms & a dash of poultry spice and a small handful of corn which she tucked into but she didn't bother too much with the water. They usually have access to water with cider apple vinegar and I now include another drinker with herban added so they have a choice.
I wormed all the girls when I got the newbies, around mid March, thought it was a bit soon to do them again...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 22:22 by Catsmuvva »

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dizzylizzie

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 22:58 »
both ascities and peritonitus can cause a blue tinged comb. peritonitus(sp) is basically caused when an egg 'misses' the tract it is supposed to be in so the egg is laid internally, the body produces fluid to try and absorb the egg. This is what causes the fluid between her legs. She will be unwell, stand hunched, poop liquid, then may poop yellow(eggy) runnypoop, or even have septis...i really would pop her to the vets. Google egg peritonitus in chickens see if that matches her symptoms ;)The fluid build up pushes on her air sacs, and thats what causes her comb to go blue, she wont be getting enough oxygen in her system. Also ascites isnt only caused by birds living in high altertudes. Another forum member has had this problem recently with her bird :( good luck x

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hillfooter

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 23:44 »
It sounds like a Vet visit asap.

The fact that your other hens have gone the same route would make an egg peritonitis issue unlikely in my book unless there's some genetic problem here. Internal layers aren't that common that your previous hens would have also gone that way.

Heart failure is certainly a possibility and ascites would be a possibility.  Have they been fed on a high protein diet (exbat feed? cat food) or high energy density diet (lots of refined foods such as pasta, boiled rice, kitchen scraps etc ) or have they had lots of salt?  Such food can lead to obesity and over weight chx are liable to suffer from ascites.  Feed only layers and in the evening a handful of corn in future if you have been over doing the high energy food.

The other thought particularly with the loose green droppings with lots of urinates would be Lymphoid Leukosis.  Ask your vet to check for a lumpy liver which would indicate tumours.  If this is indicated I'm affraid there's no treatment.

She's 2 and a half not a great age but your vet is right in one regard exbatts don't live as long as non-intensively kept birds.  Their immune system can be permanently suppressed and they are therefore more susceptible to disease.  When you get exbatts be prepared for only having 18months and if they go well and you are lucky you might do better.  3 - 4  years is probably about average.
Best of luck.
HF
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dizzylizzie

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 07:58 »
Hillfooter, i have had 2 birds with egg peritionitis within a very short period of time. None of them are over weight, non of them are fed scraps/rubbish, but both were from the same lot of ex-batts, making them the sam age....sometime they are just worn out with the abuse suffered in the factories :(

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Hawkins

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 09:51 »
Me too, ive lost 3 ex-bats from egg peritonitus all from the same rescue group and despite all my efforts and trips to the vet  they didnt make it.

catsmuvva   I dont want to be the harbinger of doom and I really hope your girly makes it and it is something else but it is well worth seeking out a good avian/poultry vet they are worth there weight in gold. Good luck sounds as if you are at the early stages of something so fingers crossed.
Em  


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hillfooter

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 10:55 »
Hillfooter, i have had 2 birds with egg peritionitis within a very short period of time. None of them are over weight, non of them are fed scraps/rubbish, but both were from the same lot of ex-batts, making them the sam age....sometime they are just worn out with the abuse suffered in the factories :(

I bow to your better experience here Lizzie.  I don't have personal experience of exbatts so I was probably talking from my experience with purebreeds with varying genetic make up.  I did say that this could be a genetic issue though and that would certainly make sense as all these chickens would share that factor.  That combined with the abuse they had suffered in early life.
HF

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Jeanette

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 11:12 »
I have got ex bats and have lostone of mine had egg peritonitis. I have got my fingers and everything else crossed that your girl is alright.

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Catsmuvva

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 14:25 »
Well, here's a thing - I've made an appointment to take Betty to the vet later but the poo isn't half as bad, the comb has regained full colour and the swollen abdomen is significantly reduced! How come animals always do that, make you out to be a paranoid mother hen? Still, to be on the safe side I'll pop her down anyway just to see if she can shed any light on things.

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joyfull

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2010, 14:32 »
it's like going to the dentist with that awful toothache that mysteriously disappears just as you step through the door  :lol:
Hope the vet says everything is as it should be - keep us posted  :D
Staffies are softer than you think.

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Catsmuvva

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Re: Please, not another one going the same way!
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 16:46 »
Ok, so we're back & I'm none the wiser! She's underweight with hardly anything in her crop despite the time of day. She obligingly sh*t on the table and this time there was a lot of clear watery stuff, no urates and the solids were in little bits (no green though!). The vet's given Bet some baytril to see if that does anything for her and a pot to pee in (that could be tricky) so she can get it analysed, but is wondering if there's something in the garden that's doing all this. I've lost 2 to the mushy abdomen thing and I have another girl, Rusty, who also has watery poo (although, come to think of it, she's been like that since she arrived a couple of months ago...) - all ex-bats.
Foodwise they're all on Smallholder Range free range layers pellets which the vet reckons should be ideal and, obviously, fresh vegetation from around the garden. She's advised me to keep them off scraps for the time being so Betty can have a more protein rich diet. I guess it's just a case of wait & see for now...

 

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