[BostonInbred]

Compost makers have tried various peat substitutes over the years, they  have all failed:

shredded carpet - too long t odegrade, somehad nasty chemicals in
coir - not very green, has to be shipped 8000 miles. can carry streptococci bacteria
green waste - no two batches are every the same, still turns up with glass in it and no one has come up with a way to pick the glass out automatically.

There IS a promising candidate on the horizon, its called Fytocell. Its a white foam that can be granulated, made in a cold process (so use very little energy), using the waste products of two other industries (so doesnt waste resources), has fantastic properties and biodegrades into CO2, water and O2.

It can hold 80% of its weight in water and still have enough air for a plant, so its  never waterlogs.  Ive tried some as growbags its amazing, it performs as good as any peat based compost, you can even use it as a hydroponic culture medium.

The only snag is it'll be three years before they make a brown colour version, and start mixing it in with composts as a peat substitute.

But its going to be the way forward.

[peapod]

Its not perfect, by any means, of course not. People and businesses will always make money, thats the name of the game after all

But we have to start somewhere or let it carry on (which it wont)..and I dont agree that we should.  So while I agree with you in part, I can only do what I am doing so far. Cynicism isn't a reason to not bother to try

And I make my own compost...no-one gets my compost able stuff, its all mine 

[peapod]

Compost makers have tried various peat substitutes over the years, they  have all failed:

shredded carpet - too long t odegrade, somehad nasty chemicals in
coir - not very green, has to be shipped 8000 miles. can carry streptococci bacteria
green waste - no two batches are every the same, still turns up with glass in it and no one has come up with a way to pick the glass out automatically.

There IS a promising candidate on the horizon, its called Fytocell. Its a white foam that can be granulated, made in a cold process (so use very little energy), using the waste products of two other industries (so doesnt waste resources), has fantastic properties and biodegrades into CO2, water and O2.

It can hold 80% of its weight in water and still have enough air for a plant, so its  never waterlogs.  Ive tried some as growbags its amazing, it performs as good as any peat based compost, you can even use it as a hydroponic culture medium.

The only snag is it'll be three years before they make a brown colour version, and start mixing it in with composts as a peat substitute.

But its going to be the way forward.

Definitely sounds promising

[vegmandan]

Peace. 

[peapod]

 

[mumofstig]

There IS a promising candidate on the horizon, its called Fytocell. Its a white foam that can be granulated, made in a cold process (so use very little energy), using the waste products of two other industries (so doesnt waste resources), has fantastic properties and biodegrades into CO2, water and O2.

How much energy do the manufacturing processes take? more than composting?
and if it degrades to into CO2, O2 and water it won't add anything to the condition of the soil, will it?

Definitely sounds promising

Personally I don't like the sound of it at all. It's replacing natural materials with a man made one

[BostonInbred]

The production of bags of compost uses a lot of energy - starting at the energy used to harvest the bog through the entire factory process to bagging  to finished stock. This is a COLD process -you just mix the ingredients and stir it up. The most energy in the whole process is the motor in the granulator machine and the bagging machine.

Its not designed to be a soil conditioner, its designed to act as a substitute for peat in bags of compost. The foam its self has nil nutrients in it, as does coir, and it degrades to stuff thats already around, so no unnatural waste.

The ingredients are natural waste products from other industries. Doesnt use any extra of the earths resources. Use far less energy, is carbon neutral from start to finish, and can be used in all sorts of ways from a compost additive to a hydroponics medium. Doesnt matter how you look at it, its far friendlier to the planet than using peat!!

[mumofstig]

I wasn't arguing about peat, Boston.....but IMO there are other natural ingredients that can be used to make a compost that doesn't include peat, without introducing un natural  sounding ones....that's the only point I was trying to make.

Worked in the Pharm industry so know a thing or 2 about granulators, so what causes this to foam..just out of interest?

[BostonInbred]

Worked in the Pharm industry so know a thing or 2 about granulators, so what causes this to foam..just out of interest?

Dont know, trade secret, they wont even tell us the exact process - theres a lot of money  a stake here !!

[JayG]

I'm sure many people appreciate Boston's attempts to educate people on the subject of compost technology, Fytocell being no exception, but I feel I must point out one or two items which I found misleading.

Fytocell has been around for about 5 years, is indeed a very useful component of growing media and is used quite extensively in commercial horticulture.

Yes, it is compostable, yes the final process in its manufacture is a "cold" process, but as a modified aminoplast foam it is derived from urea (in turn produced from ammonia) and formaldehyde (produced from methanol) both of which are mainly derived from natural gas. A great deal of energy is used in their production.

As someone who is probably more scientist than an out-and-out environmentalist I find it hard to know where to stand on the peat issue.
 
Peat bogs are ironically very bad for the environment in respect of the amount of methane they naturally produce (methane being a far more "serious" greenhouse gas than CO2)

There is also a view which I have no way of authenticating that natural renewal of peat resources is occurring faster than its extraction for horticultural use.

How we make choices as to now environmentally aware and carbon-saving we want to (or can be) ultimately depends on where we personally feel the line should be drawn based on understanding all the facts as far as it is possible to do so. 

[mumofstig]

Yes, it is compostable, yes the final process in its manufacture is a "cold" process, but as a modified aminoplast foam it is derived from urea (in turn produced from ammonia) and formaldehyde (produced from methanol) both of which are mainly derived from natural gas. A great deal of energy is used in their production.

Just as i suspected JayG 

[HugglescoteGrower]

Was in Focus on Saturday, they had special offers on their "white bag" potting compost, but feeling through the bag it felt like bark chippings too.

[Trillium]

I get the same as well Hugglescote. One brand in particular for me, which is not cheap, is a terrible offender of leaving in loads of large bits so I simply don't buy it anymore. Instead, I buy another brand which has much fewer large bits. Simple. As it should be for most of the growers on this forum. If you don't like it, don't buy it again. If you feel strongly about it, complain to the manufacturer.

[BostonInbred]

I'm sure many people appreciate Boston's attempts to educate people on the subject of compost technology, Fytocell being no exception, but I feel I must point out one or two items which I found misleading.

Fytocell has been around for about 5 years, is indeed a very useful component of growing media and is used quite extensively in commercial horticulture.

Yes, it is compostable, yes the final process in its manufacture is a "cold" process, but as a modified aminoplast foam it is derived from urea (in turn produced from ammonia) and formaldehyde (produced from methanol) both of which are mainly derived from natural gas. A great deal of energy is used in their production.

As someone who is probably more scientist than an out-and-out environmentalist I find it hard to know where to stand on the peat issue.
 
Peat bogs are ironically very bad for the environment in respect of the amount of methane they naturally produce (methane being a far more "serious" greenhouse gas than CO2)

There is also a view which I have no way of authenticating that natural renewal of peat resources is occurring faster than its extraction for horticultural use.

How we make choices as to now environmentally aware and carbon-saving we want to (or can be) ultimately depends on where we personally feel the line should be drawn based on understanding all the facts as far as it is possible to do so. 

As I understand it, all the fytocell used so far is made only in Holland and shipped over, (which is not very green), there isnt a plant to make it in the UK,- yet.  The raw materials are made in vast quantities already for all sorts of things, - Urea is used to make huge numbers of fertilisers. So again, its using what is already made, nothing new is being used, but a lot of energy less is need from the raw materials starting point to the end product.

The point is the amount of peat used for growing stuff is going to be reduced by law, so we need an alternative, and so far the only promising candidate is fytocell. If we dont find one, compost for amateurs will very rapidly become a rich mans luxury.

[JayG]

Boston, the point I was trying to make is that you make the production of Fytocell sound as if it is made from "waste products" in a way which uses virtually no energy.

It is not! As I have already explained the "raw materials" used are synthesised chemicals made from non-renewable resources and involving the use of a lot of energy.

Whether using products like Fytocell is deemed to be better than using peat remains to be seen, but sustainable and carbon-neutral it is not!