[chooksbury]

 Ok the general consensus is that feather pecking and eating stems from two possible sources
(a) boredom and (b) nutrition

So tell me this;

My hens free range most of the time and when not, there are only 3 or 4 in a 40 foot run which has perches, branches, toys, swinging cabbage etc. How the hell can it be boredom ? ?

if the layers pellets are supposed to contain everything a chicken needs, and are available adlib, with free range grazing, and lunchtime spinach, grapes, sweetcorn and peas as treats, and afternoon corn, and mixed grit, layers mash on cold mornings with seaweed or spinach ..  how the hell can it be a nutrition problem

I had a problem with one of my girls feather eating .. and tried anti peck spray (worked on me-I hate the stink of the sticky nasty stuff .. but not the chicken- she regarded it as a smoky balsamic dressing)

Last resort, fitted a beak bit, but after a month, her beak was fully closing again so that didnt work. 

Somebody said "give them cat food".  good point, if protein deficiency is the problem it would certainly help....but hang on a minute.  Shouldn't the manufacturers of the layers address this issue at source ?  WHY aren't the pellets doing their job ?   

If it's meant to be this way, where are the tins of chickomeat on the supermarket shelf 

Today in desperation, mine got chopped corned beef with some leftover soya mince (rinsed of all salty additive). They nearly ripped my arm off to get at it !  I am at my wits end here. 

On Sunday we went to a supplier.  The birds of several varieties were in a stable block with soft sawdust, perches, toys, pecka blocks, food, water all bells and whistles.  Initially they all looked healthy and lovely .. and we watched them for a while.  Each stable had a large amount of feather pecking and eating going on.  We chose a Gold Star from one, and a speckled star from another after rejecting a few with beak problems.  When we got home, the Gold Star was making a meal of the speckled's tail.    Noooooo !  We went back the next day with her, and said we had no room for a proven feather eater and OUR nutritional provisions were questioned.  Hold on a moment ... this bird was less than 24 hours from the supplier.  It's THEIR nutrition if any that should be questioned not ours.    The husbandry was good .. every need attended to so again, not boredom causing it.  We chose another speckled but that took some time as many in that barn were nomming on the other girls tails !

Can someone throw some light on this please cos we're about to throw in the towel and make a *%@$"* big vat of chicken soup ! ! ! ! !   

[Rubellite]

  Don't know, Chooksbury, it's not something I've had a problem with. Is it just the one
who does it? Could it be a bullying thing as opposed to a boredom thing. Has it always been like this? Perhaps you should try only feeding the pellets and knocking the treats on the head? I know that some on here will say that they aren't getting the correct nutrition because they're filling up with treats. I'm unable to comment as I don't feed mine on pellets

[chooksbury]

The treats are the little handfuls we hand-feed to keep them tame and are very much in the minority of the diet . . the list wasn't all in one go .. thats just the type of thing they get  but yea, I think it is important to keep the layers to the mainstay.  We don't want fat chicks.  As to whether its just one .. yes it was the newest girl, Dorothy we beak bitted who was bullied to begin with, but grew massive and took over as big mama.  The gold star went back to the supplier the next day.  The speckled stars aren't showing any naughtiness yet .. they're very timid but gorgeous little girlies.

[chooksbury]

Incidentally, when treats are given to ours, it's greens at lunchtime and corn in the afternoon.  I do like giving a layers mash on cold mornings because it's a guaranteed bellyfull of pellets with just added poultry spice and a little sprinkle of seaweek or spinach.. After all we like a cuppa on a cold morning .. the warmth in the belly wards off the chill. 

[chooksbury]

Just noticed two or three other threads on here about this problem .. re bald vent areas and pellets/treat proportions.  I forgot to add that Matilda, she of the plucked bum started laying new year's day and has continued since consistently -  I've checked for mites, lice and general buggyness but there's none there. Matilda is happy and operatic .. Dorothy the trouble maker has been moved to our other site where there is a rooster to discipline her. It seems from the simmilar discussions going on that this is a very common problem.  Most of the answers are the same .. don't over treat, make sure grit and layers are abundant .. make sure they're not bored and give em cat food.   

[GrannieAnnie]

You will be pleased to know Chooksbury that even the experts still get puzzled by this.  I don't care what the experienced chicken keepers on this and some other forums say, I don't think it is just boredom or nutrition that causes feather pecking.

When we started rearing chicks, we started off with Amberlinks.  They are lovely looking birds and have been very popular, but almost always when they get to about 9 weeks and going through their second little moult, they start pecking each other.  They don't just peck feathers out.  They draw blood, and I have gone down the henhouse and found chicks half eaten.

amberlinks also seem to have a death wish as any noise or something that frightens them in the night causes them to rush up one end of the house and pile on top of each other.  And that isn't for warmth as they do it in the summer too.  One night I lost 48 chicks, all on the same pile!

I contacted our nearest poultry vet and he said the Amberlinks are very susceptible to both these problems, and he thinks these 2 problems happen more in hybrids, and for some reason, more so the Amberlinks, because of all the genetics involved in getting the breed where it is. 

I must say, I've never experienced this problem with any of our pure breeds, or indeed the meat chicks we have.  So I thinks there is more to pecking than meets the eye.

I know it doesn't help your situation, but the best thing I've found to stop them pecking is Ukadex.  Just don't get it on you or even a shower won't stop the smell!!   

[lucylou]

hi chicksbury - ive got this with one of mine - a welsummer, like you - its not boredom in my case and she eats the same as the others, pellets etc.  she doesnt do it all the time but the other girls have bald patches around their bums which must get a bit nippy in this  windy weather.  i think it is just a bad habit in my case and it's not going to be easy to stop, i was thinking about moving her in with a new group of girls and altering the pecking order - i dont know im still thinking about what to do about it :unsure:lucyloux

[hillfooter]

It's rarely a nutrition problem particularly if you are feeding a balanced compound feed. Nutrition is the glib answer which leads to outlandish attempts to correct protein levels with cat food and the like which I'm convince just make things worse.  

Despite you being convinced it's not boredom I'd rather suspect it is.  Having lots of things for them to do and plenty of room to scrat about in is going in the right direction but chickens are motivated to be active by searching for food not swings and things to jump about on.  There's no need to provide them with their private gym.  

It sounds to me your chickens are getting far to many treats and things provided too easily to eat.  Your chx need to forage for their food and if they have lots thrown at them all the time they have no need to be active.  They need to be encouraged to be as active as possible scratting about and I'd err on the side of under feeding than over feeding.  Definitely cut out cat food another glib solution and reduce the feed to layers pellets ONLY from a single feeder hung in a covered area they have to visit.  Make them work for it and don't put it all on a plate for them.  Indroduce a bit of mixed corn hand fed in the evening when the problem is unwinding a bit.

Having said this Grannie Annie is right in saying that it's a more complex problem than just caused by nutrition or what you might consider to be boredom and I'm sure different breeds are more susceptable than others.  Beak bits do work but expect to have to change them periodically they don't last forever and try a different design if the one you have is too soft or too hard.  However it's a habit thing and once established it's difficult to stop so be patient.

The other thing I'd say is that you seem to be getting into a bit of a state about it and I wonder if you aren't getting it out of proportion.  If it's not causing an unmanagable problem be a bit more relaxed.  You are never going to prevent the odd incidence of feather pecking.
HF

[Nikkithefoot]

I have a similar problem with a similar sized run and 4 birds which I have had for about 6 weeks. In my case the feather pecking only happens when one particular dust bath is being used, once one bird starts the others seem to join in and the pecked bird doesn't attempt to move away.  It is being filled in today. An area of the run gets the soil turned daily to allow the girls to forage, and some of their layers ration is raked into the newly turned soil to encourage foraging. I don't think it is dietary or boredom, but one of those things.

[chooksbury]

  Not rally in a state just frustrated at the conflicting information.  Mind you, I agree, the treats despite being little bits, need to be littler and I do like to make the girls root about for their food .. Hence the home gym :-)  They prefer to clamber over my recycycle bin anyway and scrat about under the shrubbery.  As for the person whose birds do it after being in a particular dust bath I'd be inclined to diatom the dust bath ... some people use pure diatom to dust but I think that may be a bit extreme.  Yes I guess I'm trying too hard to please.  Treats are being cut for now .. and matilda has a lovely violet barbecue smelling bum. 
 It could be genetics .. thats an interesting point.  The older girls are burford browns which I suspect is copper black maran (hence the lovely eggs) with something chunky and fluffy like orpy or cochin (some have feathery feet .. mine dont).  The breeder never tells :-) You get probs occuring with the breeding of pedigree dogs ... all this mucking about with genetics has to have some effect .. I'll just stop blaming myself and let them get on with it and stop fussing !

[too many girls]

i think it may just become a bad habit, like nail biting in people and weaving or windsucking in horses, once one starts others copy and it can be the very devil to break.

[hillfooter]

Not rally in a state just frustrated at the conflicting information.  Mind you, I agree, the treats despite being little bits, need to be littler and I do like to make the girls root about for their food .. Hence the home gym :-)  They prefer to clamber over my recycycle bin anyway and scrat about under the shrubbery.  As for the person whose birds do it after being in a particular dust bath I'd be inclined to diatom the dust bath ... some people use pure diatom to dust but I think that may be a bit extreme.  Yes I guess I'm trying too hard to please.  Treats are being cut for now .. and matilda has a lovely violet barbecue smelling bum.  
 It could be genetics .. thats an interesting point.  The older girls are burford browns which I suspect is copper black maran (hence the lovely eggs) with something chunky and fluffy like orpy or cochin (some have feathery feet .. mine dont).  The breeder never tells :-) You get probs occuring with the breeding of pedigree dogs ... all this mucking about with genetics has to have some effect .. I'll just stop blaming myself and let them get on with it and stop fussing !

__________________________________________________________________________
It's often said that chx regulate their energy untake according to their needs which in fact is true to a point.  Bulk of food does play a role however and if you feed high energy density feed such as cat food or other forms of pure protein or refined carbs they can get more calories than they need and put on weight.  Also they have less need to forage if their energy intake is satisfied with quick meals.  layers pellets not only provides all the nutrients they need in the right proportions it provides a lower density of energy intake meaning the chx need to bulk up more and that keeps them active.  The danger is if you mix your own feed or over treat, this aspect of their rations is not ideal and there's a likelihood, if it's just a homespun cocktail of their favourite things that they will get more than they need and become obese.  

We now recognise that eating fast foods is very bad for children for similar reasons and is also implicated in behavioural problems.  Chx are no different.

Best of luck with the diet chooksbury.
HF

[Rubellite]

Ahem, HF. I mix my own feeds and  the only problem I seem to get on a regular basis is LICE! (Oh thank you great Rook).
My chooks are fit, not overweight, and don't have any bad habits, so 
(But on the whole I agree with you  )

[hillfooter]

Ahem, HF. I mix my own feeds and  the only problem I seem to get on a regular basis is LICE! (Oh thank you great Rook).
My chooks are fit, not overweight, and don't have any bad habits, so 
(But on the whole I agree with you  )

I did say there was a danger it's not inevitable.  I'm sure if you mix your own feed Rube you will be doing it responsibly using some receipe and it won't just be a concoction of favourite tidbits.

Layers pellets are formulated scientifically for the commercial layer to produce optimum nutrition to cost trade offs and generally your average hobbist does need such fine tuning but at least you know if you use feed professionally formulated you won't be going wrong,  but it's not the only way I agree.
Nice to hear from you.
HF

[Rubellite]

Nice to hear from you.
HF

And you