[Sweet Pea 2]

I am not totally organic.  e.g I do use slug pellet.  I have full time demanding job, I am doing a Masters degree outside of work, and I even have a bit of a social life.  I don't reckon I would get many veggies left if I didn't use slug pellets. 
In a way it is a human rights issue as you would be restricting certain people from taking a plot if they couldn't use certain products.   I may not have taken my plot on with that restriction.
I am only talking small amounts of carefully applied gycophosphate, used only when really needed, and small quantites of slug pellets.
Are there any allotments that are totally organic?

[pumpkinpatch]

i like to think of my self as 100% organic but i think we all know that were not unless your relay careful. i try to only add the cardboard that has no or little ink on it i only use organic slug pellets no chems pesticides fungicides use. vegetable peelings wise into the compost the vast majority of them are organic but inorganic will go in there sometimes. our local potatoes arnt organic but they are so much better then normal shop bought ones makes the best mash and roasties. 

[Sweet Pea 2]

My question  "are there any allotments that are totally organic."  Wasn't really what I meant.  What I meant was are there any large groups of allotments e.g. parish or local councils that insist on total organic use?

[Christine]

If there are Sweet Pea 2, I would think that the local council doesn't know what it's talking about - which is nothing unusual.   

[Sweet Pea 2]

that is what I thought.  thanks

[Salmo]

Salmo, would you care to expand on your statement? (For the purposes of entertainment only  )

No! Right of free speech and all that.

[NigelB]

Salmo, would you care to expand on your statement? (For the purposes of entertainment only  )

No! Right of free speech and all that.

Oooookay.... You lost me. 
Perhaps you mean the right not to speak?  Still, whatever. 

I was thinking about your original point; Quote:"To make a restrictive rule that an allotment site must be all organic is surely an infringment of human rights?.... And those of Sweet Pea 2 and Christine..

I'm not so sure it is against anyone's human rights.
 One could quite reasonably turn the argument on it's head and ask "To make a restrictive rule that an allotment site must be inorganic is surely an infringment of human rights?"

For instance, the field we are actually looking at has been cleared for organic use, if so desired.
Part of it, almost two-thirds of an acre, we won't be cultivating, but under discussion is that a portion of that will be used  for bee-keeping. One idea, is to make a minimal footprint by simply mowing paths to small cleared areas where the beehives will stand, leaving the flora and fauna to remain as untouched as possible.
Is it wrong to actively try to preserve that patch of pristine wildlife habitat, and the bees themselves, by keeping the area as clear of inorganic substances as possible?
Also, if I wanted to garden as organically as possible, is it not against my human rights to force me to endure inorganic use all around me which automatically negates my efforts to garden organically?


And after all, .............. the Organics were here first. 



That apart though, I'm sure a compromise will be reached whereby everyone bears in mind the value of leaving our natural flora and fauna as untainted by our efforts as possible, and gardens their allotment in a suitably sympathetic manner..... And the decision will be reached by democratic means, as stated earlier.



Anyways.....

It was THE meeting last night. The one between the council's technical committee (oddly enough, the same people sitting in the same seats), and the Allotment Association. (And a few supporters)
Last week, the council had provided us with an outline of the field on paper, and asked us to draw in the area we wanted for the allotments.
We did, allowing a 'generous' acre and-a-half for the allotments themselves, and another acre for livestock. (Bees and chickens/rabbits.)
Result! They agreed without further, or in fact any ado at all.... To us having two and-a-half acres of Wales' finest countryside in which to raise allotments, keep bees and chickens and rabbits, and with enough space left over for a community garden with which to involve the Brownies, the local primary school, the disabled or/and elderly.
I left with a smile a mile wide.

Lots to do now though, as you can imagine.....................

[Ivah]

Christine

I don't consider myself an organic gardener and in fact I am quite critical of the extreme evangelical wing of the organic movement. I see you suggest to be truly organic you should be careful of the provenance of the stuff you compost. Do you by any chance have any links to sources that suggest this level of care is required?

[Christine]

Ivah
The rules for properly organic that I was reading before I started this thread were the rules from the Soil Association for farms that want certification as organic.  If you want some really stiff reading it's all on this link. Of course the rules don't apply to allotments but it just set me off thinking about what really organic involved.

The discussion here has been interesting in showing what people can do and what people think is enough to do on their own allotments and in their own gardens. I'll never be 100% organic as I take compostable material from other gardeners. I'd rather have the material knowing that it's not particularly obnoxious than not have it.

And sometimes my own peelings are not organic. The cardboard I use certainly isn't. That's life and that's why I wondered what others did.

[Leedsniner]

Allotment gardening is war. It is us v the animals/insects/birds. All is fair in love and war.

[Christine]

Oh I don't know Leedsniner.

There's a fat thrush or three who eats my snails, robins and blackbirds who come for other nasties and the bees absolutely love dandelion flowers (just have to dead head smartly).  Sometimes the oddest of friends work together.

Mind I'm with the carrot fly - tagetes bdooly stink. I don't like them either. 

[tonybloke]

How many folk on this forum have qualifications in organic horticulture?
I do, BTEC National Award in Horticulture (Organic).
the course ran for 2 yrs at Easton College (Norfolk), and as far as I know, only 15 people in england hold this Qualification.
 

[griff]

Tonybloke what can you tell me about the use of dried molasses as a soil restorative. Also the use of humic acid granules on veg plots. Herd a lot about them from overseas growers but will they work in UK, and can you get them in this country.

[tonybloke]

they would both work in the UK, but are primarily used for soil restoration projects.
humic acid is available in the UK,
 http://www.viresco-uk.com/information/horticultural_humate_products.asp
'vinasse' is the dried molasses product, and is a by-product of alchohol production. British Sugar do have a ethanol plant in Norfolk, but I'm not sure if they have made the product commercially available.
If your soil needs either of these products, what have you done to it??

[griff]

Thanks Tonybloke i haven't done any thing to it as far as i know. Just interested i grow giant pumpkins and that is all i hear from the lads in Canada, how much humic acid they use. plus molasses. One thing i did learn was that cinnamon distrupts ants ability to follow their own trails. So if i get ants i can send them onto my neighbours plot. Thanks for your reply