[purplebat]

but how does he know if he takes no notice of the moon?      

[Zak the Rabbit]

hey! im a rabbit! i dont want to know any wolves of any kind!


strangely, i seem to be having email trouble - none of these posts are being received in my inbox, so i keep having to come back on to see whats changed!

not one of you wickens out there hex'd me email is it?    

and i do take a lot of notice of the moon - im an astronomer, i will be watching it tonight for evidence of meteor impacts (when i say watching i dont mean by eye, i'll be using radio receivers)

[purplebat]

:shock:  who moi? never!  

[king cauli]

The phase of the moon has absolutely no influence over anything other than how easy it is to see at night

try tellin it to salmon,and the rest of the animal kingdom,try telln it to the tides of lakes rivers and seas,the land even moves upto a foot a day,how you can talk about no influence and call yourelf an astronomar of sorts its really what a profound statement to be making keep m comin,its the way you tellem

[Salkeela]

The idea of "planting" or "sowing" to the moon are a bit suspect IMO.

Let me explain...

In naturally self-seeding plants the seeds stay in the ground until ideal conditions arise (or alternatively until they are eaten or decomposed .... !).

We, as gardeners, save seed and try to plant at an optimal time in order to lessen the chances of the seed failing. So we remove the competition (weeds) and store seed in a favourable environment (cool & dry) until spring comes around. This way we increase the chances of the seed surviving the winter and we give it a head start over it's competitors.

However planting seed in the ground is really a totally unnatural activity.

Normally the seed would be in the ground already and then either succeed or fail. I know there are natural mechanisms for dispersal of seed, but none that I know of that naturally "plant" seed at a particular time!

Now if I put seed into the ground myself it may or may not germinate. If conditions are not quite right it will stay put until the conditions ARE right... afterall under normal circumstances it stays in dormancy until spring. (Or it fails and decomposes.)

So let's say planting by the moon works.... if I planted seed a week before the "best" time by the moon, my seed would surely just sit in the soil until it's good and ready. So why would it be "wrong" to plant a week early?

Naturally dispersed seeds stay dormant until the temperature/light/moisture conditions are correct for that species. Even if they then germinate at a particular point in the moon's cycle (which I have seen no evidence to support) does it really mean that I need to put my seeds into the ground to coincide with that time?

To be honest, I can't see the moon stuff working. If it's warm enough, & there's enough moisture etc then why would a seed wait?

I remain skeptical.

I posted this response on another forum in relation to the same discussion..... apologies to those who have read it before.

[WG.]

The idea of "planting" or "sowing" to the moon are a bit suspect IMO

I tend to agree with you SK.

However, in fairness to the other school of thought, should we not admit the possibility that the gravitational field of the moon could affect the seed / seedling  :?:

[Zak the Rabbit]

The phase of the moon has absolutely no influence over anything other than how easy it is to see at night

out of context - my comment refered specifically to the subject in question. But the simple point is that it is not the phase, but the position of the moon that influences tidal motion. The phase is the moons position relative to the suns position from our viewpoint.

Tidal movements are mass actions, a cumilative effect of millions of kg of material being gravitationally attracted to another mass. Seedlings are too small for gravitational variations to have any effect, after all, do you feel any physical effect of the moons gravity?


quite right, WG, we should allow the possibility, but not to assign any probability without reproducible evidence.


the simple fact is, there is not, to my knowledge, any scientific evidence that this works, and most gardeners would be far better concentrating on known, proven methods than following old wives tales.

SK is correct with the explanation of how a seed will germinate and flourish only in suitable environmental conditions.

I think that where the idea of lunar cycle sowing has originated, and why it may show some results, is that the moons cycles are a usefull measure of time across the year, along with the solstices and equinoxs, and so ancient agricultural communities would have used the moon to measure the seasons. The 'markers' provided by the full moons (which we all know were named depending on the particular cultures activities at that time, ie our 'harvest' and 'hunt' moons) would have indicated the time during the seasons in which conditions, on average, were suitable for various agricultural activities, such as sowing. Around these full moons the farmers would have paid more attention to other natural indicators of conditions in order to determine when to plant.

[shaun]

poppycock  

[WG.]

poppycock

A well-argued and thoroughly-researched posting, young man.  

[Zak the Rabbit]

poppycock  

ive never grown that variety, whats the flower like?  :oops:  :shock:  

[shaun]

double poppycock  

[Ice]

Zak, I love you, you put into words what I can't be bothered to.  We're fighting a losing battle against a sea of superstition.  Long live empiracally tested facts.  

Actually, we have been here before and the subject got very heated.  Just hope we don't go down that route again.  I for one will not continue to reply to this thread.  

Long live our differences.  It makes the world "interesting".

[king cauli]

hey true enough i dont feel any direct effects from gravity ,but it is havin an effect,i dont feel my hair growing either,or the world spinning;could not the water content in a seed be affected,when the pull at the earth is at its strongest,could it not encourage or discourage growth and why is it that plants have sudden growth spurts when enviroment is kept at a constant?i hope you are trialing this method and not just rubbishing before hand,good-luck

[Zak the Rabbit]

why is it that plants have sudden growth spurts when enviroment is kept at a constant?i hope you are trialing this method and not just rubbishing before hand,good-luck

the sudden growth spurts are far more due to biochemistry im afraid. In order that cellular or genetic damage is not transmitted, during cell replication certain 'checkpoints' exist that halt growth unless conditions are suitable. It is the release from these checkpoints that cause the sudden spurts of growth. I wont go into detail here because even at the simple cellular level its extremely complex!  (i know, im studying it!)

IM not myself trialling this method, because i simply dont have the facilities to make the trial fair and to control all the more influential variables. I am trying to find previous trial data to review though.

you put into words what I can't be bothered to

thanks Ice! im going to regard that as my first ever mark of respect from a student to me as teacher      

[ytyynycefn]

I'm with you on this one Zak - when the topic first aired I was scratching my head trying to come up with a fair, scientific and reproducible trial of the two planting times - couldn't come up with something that satisfied the scientist in me!  I've been looking for peer-reviewed evidence (but without the benefit of the libraries I used to have access to when I was studying plant biochemistry), but can't find anything either.  

So unless someone can point me in the direction of a proper peer-reviewed paper in a proper scientific journal, I remain at best skeptical, and with the distinct impression that it's a load of b*ll*cks.

After all, with the huge financial and social implications of increasing food production, you'd think the powers that be would try and see if it works properly, wouldn't you?