Large blood spots in the coop.

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chickenlady

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2009, 13:02 »
the ACS means it is medicated i think! 1 of my dorking girls caught a toe a few weeks back and i found somw blood like that around the run and on the feeder! they could of caught them selves whilst jumping up to roost!?  ???
Saying that though it is possible that your Archie caught a mouse and was being chased with it while it was still dripping!! ??? and jumped up on the perch for a bit to get away from the others!!

Debbie
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 13:17 by chickenlady »
thinks her guardian angel`s gone on strike !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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joyfull

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2009, 13:23 »
just tried ringing bocm pauls help desk for you but the girl Lisa is not in the office at the moment will try again later to find out for you. I think it will be medicated as the other types small holder and a & p organic range state cocci additive free. The trouble is there are 8 diff types of cocci and the additive doesn't cover all 8. Will let you know when I get through to them.
Staffies are softer than you think.

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joyfull

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 13:34 »
Just spoke to them and the 20kg bags are medicated but the the 7.5kg bags have the option to be medicated free. They are sending me an email about it so can either forward this onto you (just pm me your email add) or I can try and post it on here, but don't know how many pages it is.

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joyfull

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 13:41 »


Sorry that this is so long but this is the info that BOCM Pauls have emailed to me regarding cocci. I don't know if it needs to be on here or on chicken information but here goes anyway  :)

COCCIDIOSIS

In this article, we are looking at the options available to provide the pullet with good immunity against coccidiosis on the laying site.

This is of great importance to the free range flock as, unlike their cage sisters, they are at more risk of exposure to the coccidial parasite on the laying farm.

Why do we worry about coccidia?

Coccidia are protozoal parasites which, when swallowed by the bird invade and multiply in the cells lining the gut wall.

There are eight strains of coccidial parasite which can affect laying chickens. 

When birds are exposed to low levels of coccidia, there is little damage to the intestine and the bird responds to the presence of the coccidia in the intestine by developing resistance.
In an ideal world, birds would be naturally exposed to a low level of coccidia allowing the flock to acquire immunity by “trickle” infection without developing any disease problems – a “balance” between the bird and the parasite.

However, in reality, even in relatively small flocks, because of the concentration of birds in rearing and laying houses and the persistence of this parasite in the environment, in certain circumstances birds can be exposed to higher levels of parasite and show clinical signs of coccidiosis which may result in a variety of problems including poor weight gain and unevenness within the flock.  If flocks are affected with coccidiosis in lay, this can cause mortality, loss of condition and depression of egg production with deterioration in egg quality.

There can also be significant mortality in severe coccidiosis outbreaks in the rearing stage as the younger the bird, the more vulnerable it is to this parasite.  Poor control of coccidiosis in the rearing stage can also lead to very uneven flocks at point of lay. 

Options for Coccidiosis Control

1.  Feed Medication

   The aim with feed medication during rear is to allow limited exposure to the parasite by providing an anti-coccidial drug in the feed. The risk of coccidia reaching levels at which they will damage the intestine is minimised.

   Various drugs can be used in the feed during rear to prevent coccidiosis.  Lasalocid (Avatec) is one of the more commonly used medications.  Feed manufacturers normally use a step down programme, starting with a higher dose of drug in the starter ration, for example to around 6 weeks, then a reduced dose between 7 and 12 weeks.  Some farmers may use a triple step down programme starting with a high level for a shorter period in the starter and then two further reductions during the rearing period.  Usually the medication is withdrawn from the feed between 2 and 4 weeks before the birds are moved to the laying site.
 
Advantages of Feed Medication

•   It is easy to administer and an inexpensive means of control.
•   This method can provide good protection to the pullet on the rearing site but also, as it allows trickle exposure, the pullet can develop its own good immunity to protect the bird on the laying site. 

What are the Disadvantages of Feed Medication?

•   Birds may not necessarily be exposed to all the strains of coccidia they may meet on the laying site (more of a problem now as biosecurity on rearing sites is high). 
•   Method depends on birds eating well.  Any other disease or feed quality problem which reduces feed intake will prevent the right intake of anti-coccidial.
•   For organic pullets, use of a “drug” in the feed may be considered not acceptable.


2.   Control by Strategic Medication via Water during the Rearing Period

   This system relies on strategic treatment with anti-coccidial administered via drinking water.  This might be given as a routine treatment at various stages when coccidial challenge is expected to be high or used as an intervention if birds show signs of coccidiosis and require treatment.

   This approach is probably only suitable for very small groups of birds.


 3.    Vaccination

   Birds can be vaccinated during the first week of life with a vaccine containing all the strains of coccidia they are likely to meet on the rearing or laying farm but in the form of non pathogenic strains which stimulate development of immunity in the birds without causing significant damage to the intestines.

   Vaccine is usually administered via drinking water or, in some cases, by spraying onto feed at day old.  It is thought in the future that it may be possible to administer this vaccine by spray at the hatchery.

   In certain circumstances, birds have been vaccinated later in life, either prior to or shortly after arrival on the laying site.  Although this may be of benefit if heavy challenge is anticipated on the laying flock, the product is not licenced for use in this way.

Advantages of Vaccination

•   If properly administered, birds will have been exposed to all the strains of coccidia they are likely to meet and should be immune to challenge, both on the rearing and the laying site.

Disadvantages

•   Likely to be more expensive than the previous two methods.
•   Birds must get off to a good start to be capable of responding properly to vaccination.
•   Administration of vaccine is very critical.  If vaccine is not administered properly, birds will not fully respond.
•   There is a risk if feed containing an anti-coccidial is fed inadvertently to vaccinated flocks, this may reduce the efficacy of the vaccine and birds may not be protected.
•   Depending on where your pullets are being reared, vaccination may not be an option as if the majority of birds on site are receiving medicated feed to control coccidiosis, it may be impractical for the pullet rearer to use vaccine.

If you have experienced problems with outbreaks of coccidiosis, either on the rearing or laying site, the use of an anti-coccidial disinfectant as part of the terminal cleaning and disinfection programme is recommended to reduce the risk to subsequent flocks.

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Roughlee Handled

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 14:04 »
Thanks Joyful you had better luck than me as I rang and left a message for Jim (the man that should know) but it just goes through to anwser phone.
Stuart


Dont worry I am just paranoid duckie.

If I get the wrong end of the stick its because I have speed read. Honest.

Blar blar blar blar snorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre.

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joyfull

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 14:08 »
think as yours is acs then it is medicated like debbie said (she knows you know!!), but it may not have got the one that they are being medicated for  :(. If you need more advice Lisa has given me her email and direct line number.

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Foxy

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 15:09 »
I am afraid when it comes to cocci, medicated feed doesn't do a great deal. I have seen a breeder lose 90% of stock to cocci, despite medicated feed AND vaccination! It was heartbreaking for her.
Ruff - having said that it is probably unlikely, however, the "spatter" and the fact that is frank blood without any evidence of a wound is mystifying.If it was feet, there would be smears all other the place, which I would expect to find with little wounds.
 My feeing is that with any suspicion of cocci, I would be in there like a shot, thats just from my personal experience. Keep a very close eye on them, for any other symptoms it could just  be a one of. Coxiod only costs about £6.00 and will treat all of them, just change their growers to Small holders or Marriages for example, if you use Coxoid dont give them any vitamins.It wont do any harm, while breeding to keep a bottle of Coxoid handy.

Most mortality in young growers will be down to cocci.

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too many girls

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 15:17 »
thank you Foxy, you hit the nail on the head, i thought by feeding medicated chick crumb i was protecting my chicks from cocci, as Will the vet pointed out in his thread this isn't so (looked up every kind of disease except cocci because i thought they were protected) i lost Popcorn and Pootle because i got them to Will too late.

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joyfull

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2009, 15:23 »
do you have to get coxoid from a vets?

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Foxy

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 15:26 »
No, most agricultural places will stock, like countrywide for example. or on the tinternet :)

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raeburg

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2009, 15:26 »
have a look at their combs, the droplet splatter looks like it has come from shaking.

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Roughlee Handled

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 16:19 »
OK I can get me Coxiod but its the un medicated feed that is hard to get.

have a look at their combs, the droplet splatter looks like it has come from shaking.

Raeburg none of the girls have combs as they are 10 weeks old and only my Cockerel has and he is fine. 

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chickenlady

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 16:25 »
Now im worried too!  ??? Will go and get some coxoid to be on the safe side if i notice any symptoms.
I thought that they would have runny watery poops too if it was that!?? all the poop around the blood splatters in the pic look completely normal????

Debbie

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joyfull

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 16:32 »
allen and page organic would be ok, you can order it direct from them. I order from my local feed merchants but have to wait for delivery. Going to buy me some coxoid tomorrow to keep just in case.

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too many girls

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Re: Large blood spots in the coop.
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 16:53 »
what is the diference between coxoid and baycox 2.5% ? does it have a shelf life? i still have some left from the Polands exp date 31-12-10 just wondered if it was still usable, it's in one of those tube thingy's the nurse gives you to wee in at prenatal, mind you at the first sign of blood i'll probably have my chicks whizzing off to Will anyway :blush:


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