can you please explain about raised beds

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philskin

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can you please explain about raised beds
« on: May 09, 2009, 16:33 »
I have just been to see a new veg garden thats been made using raised beds ,the beds are 4ft wide by 30 ft long and there are 6 of them side by side all down the garden ,there are paths in between each bed about 4ft wide and a path all around the outside 4ft wide . To me that looks a waste of good garden space ,he as actually cultivated less than 50% of his allotted space . I understand using raised beds if youve got shallow soil or bad soil or even disabled but I cant get my head around this ,or am i missing the point ??? ???
If the early bird gets the worm how come the 2nd mouse to the trap gets the cheese ??

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Kristen

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2009, 17:02 »
My raised beds are 4' wide - maximum to comfortable reach from either side - but the paths are only 18".  If I plant something right on the edge it can spread across the path, so I don't think I get any more harvest than a non-raised bed grower.  My soil is heavy, so I have raised beds to help with drainage, and reduce digging.

It also avoids having to walk on the beds in Winter - which would add about 2" to the depth of the sole of my boots with every stride :(

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mumofstig

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2009, 17:09 »
I have just been to see a new veg garden thats been made using raised beds ,the beds are 4ft wide by 30 ft long and there are 6 of them side by side all down the garden ,there are paths in between each bed about 4ft wide and a path all around the outside 4ft wide . To me that looks a waste of good garden space ,he as actually cultivated less than 50% of his allotted space . I understand using raised beds if youve got shallow soil or bad soil or even disabled but I cant get my head around this ,or am i missing the point ??? ???

Can't get me head round the paths being 4ft wide :wacko: That's unusual as you say he's wasted a lot of space. With thinner paths he'd have got more beds...Madness :blink:
Are the paths grass and that's the mower width?...just looking for reasons :lol:

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philskin

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009, 18:56 »
no the paths have had the turf striped of and he,s putting bark down ,amazing waste of space

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Yabba

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2009, 19:03 »
I have to admit, our beds are ( various lengths ) 2'9" wide, with 3' paths between, but that's more to suit the dahlias that we grow ( and show ), they soon fill the 3' path.

So, now that I have an excuse .... even I wouldn't waste that much growing space ! :O

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sean moore

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2009, 19:28 »
what would be the best height for raised beds as i have a chance of some scaffold boards dirt cheap
regards
sean

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mumofstig

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 19:42 »
IMO scaffold boards are the perfect height :) specially if they are cheap :lol:

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Dal

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 20:36 »
This gives me the opportunity to ask a related question: what would be the best height to build a raised bed in a greenhouse situated on concrete?

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Kristen

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2009, 06:58 »
My thoughts are: a raised bed brings the plants nearer the roof, so reduces growing heigh (for Tomatoes and Cucumbers).  In fact I've lowered the beds in my greenhouse to give me a bit more height.

However, what you do starting from a concrete floor I don't know, sorry.

Growbags are about the "slimmest" solution.

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Yabba

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2009, 07:17 »
Last year in our greenhouse, also on concrete, I used plumped up growbags, basically shook the compost down to one end so that they were fatter and about 2/3's the length. I used these for 2 toms or 2 cucs, they were quite happy at that.

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Eatyourgreens

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2009, 08:27 »
I would agree that the current adoption of raised beds (RB’s) by a lot of new gardeners is a fashion, and some people put them in because they see them on TV or other gardens without any thought as to why they are doing it.

I would struggle to have them on allotments except in special circumstances like really bad drainage or maybe for specimen Leak growing.

But there is more to them than just modern fashion.

There are many examples of medieval gardens that had small wattle fences of about 6 inches high that created the divide between path and the cultivated area to create "No tread/dig" beds, by common sense if the idea is to never tread on the cultivated soil, it would tend to create beds of about 4ft across, and the length would want to be between 10 and 20 ft, too short and they are unpractical, too long finds you jumping across instead of walking round hence the standard modern shape of RB’s.

I accept the reason for no dig beds was far more important in the past for the simple reason of; "You try digging a plot with a wooden spade". Anything larger than a garden by a cottage or castle/monastery courtyard would have been ploughed, but ploughing with horses needed strip fields, so not normally done in smaller areas, hence gardens, hence no dig. Even Roman gardens would have been in courtyards and no dig even though they had slaves.

I would guess that historically no dig beds are far more traditional than the “Standard” way of allotment/vegetable gardening seen for the last hundred years. I can’t see a Neolithic, Bronze age, Iron age, Roman British peasant, Anglo Saxon or Medieval gardener is ever going to tread on his precious dug over soil if his shovel is a Deer antler, or wooden spade, and it’s really only the later part of the industrial age when people were leaving the land that a modern metal spade became a reality for an average peasant (Most of the population).

In other words, once man found agriculture some 10 to 20 thousand years ago and stopped wandering from site to site as a hunter-gatherer he would probably used no dig, if soil isn’t trod on every year and worked in traditional ways (Adding compost) the soil level will raise up and you end up with RB’s, then to keep it tidy you add fences or boards and you end up with the modern RB.

To my mind the principle behind the no tread/RB approach has a lot more going for it than avoiding digging, increasing the fertility of the soil would be the main idea; there are other reasons for RB's.

1 Some people will be daunted by a large area of soil to cultivate and often not gardening because it gets on top of them, by working a series of smaller beds, they can keep up with the workload and feel they are getting somewhere.

2 Using raised beds with a light and open soil makes gardening easier. This is useful for all sorts of people.

3 By working smaller areas with a lot more control, you increase your yields for a lot less effort, also you need to practice much more discipline over what and how you plant, no more 30ft long rows of Radishes. You hopefully micro manage your beds to maximum yields for what you can eat at one go.

I am sure I could find more reasons, I am sure others could use loads of arguments for not RB gardening.

Some of those arguments could be along the line of too much space wasted on paths and the waste of the wood, and this is probably true especially if someone makes the paths too wide, or uses wood when there just isn’t needed, but by the time you take out all the paths on an average allotment plot I doubt if the waste area is that different.

I am sure your friend with his 4ft paths is just a fashion follower, not really knowing what he is doing, I doubt he will make much money from his garden, then no one in a modern economy will, far easier and cheaper to go to a supermarket, but that’s not why we garden, otherwise we wouldn’t spend money on greenhouses, rotivators, cars to get to an allotment (If you think an RB is silly, think about owning a car to collect your vegetables).

So it comes down to fashion, pleasure and choice. Is that a problem?

Bob

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Yorkie

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2009, 08:32 »
Nice post bob, liked the historical aspect :)
I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days all attack me at once...

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Eatyourgreens

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2009, 10:31 »
Cheers, any chance of moving this thread to "Grow your own" or "Chatting on the plot" for better coverage, as it's not really a construction thread.



Bob

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Dal

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2009, 21:14 »

To my mind the principle behind the no tread/RB approach has a lot more going for it than avoiding digging, increasing the fertility of the soil would be the main idea; there are other reasons for RB's.

1 Some people will be daunted by a large area of soil to cultivate and often not gardening because it gets on top of them, by working a series of smaller beds, they can keep up with the workload and feel they are getting somewhere.

2 Using raised beds with a light and open soil makes gardening easier. This is useful for all sorts of people.

3 By working smaller areas with a lot more control, you increase your yields for a lot less effort, also you need to practice much more discipline over what and how you plant, no more 30ft long rows of Radishes. You hopefully micro manage your beds to maximum yields for what you can eat at one go.

I am sure I could find more reasons

Another reason could be health-related. For example, I have spinal degeneration and osteo-arthritis while my wife also has certain physical problems. RB's in our case allow for far less bending and far less digging (something I always loved, by the way).

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Trillium

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Re: can you please explain about raised beds
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2009, 21:30 »
4 ft wide paths are definitely a waste of space. Obviously the owner wants to drive a lawn tractor between the beds for delivery of manure and such.
I do mounded beds in most of my veg gardens because I have a shallow depth of good soil otherwise. By piling the path soil onto the mound, I get more useable depth. My paths are only a spade width, but I rebuild my mounds each year so they're different widths to suit what I want to grow (after I've rotovated the lot).
This year I have some true raised beds (sided with wood) as these are on top of the edges of my septic system leeching field which cannot be dug into. But I can use the space on top around the perimeter to squeeze in the blueberry and cranberry plants which are in these beds. Fashion had nothing to do with it, but poor soil and not being able to dig this area did.
As for bed heights, they can vary with your needs. I saw one pic with beds almost 3 ft high because the owner could not bend at all and these were perfect for her. 2 ft seems to be the most practical height for root systems to grow well.


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