[TheModfather]

i will deffo have some spare seconds and main so if you struggle pm me your address and i will send you what i dont plant hope that helps i am not using farm manure ever luckily there are horses on our allotments and i can get my hands on enough manure to sink the titanic twice over!

Yes, thanks very much for the offer Robin. I will let you know if I can't get my hands on any if thats OK. Im pretty certain there should be some left on the shelves tomorrow though. Thanks again.

[johnnyboy]

It may not be weedkiller in your compost, because I can see, in your photos weeds growing. Also the bottom leaves look unaffected its only the top new leaves that are curling.

Frost damage ?
Scorching ?

[whippersnapper]

i'd agree with johny: don't jump too quickly to any conclusions. it doesn't sound good though if other crops show similar signs...

this is exactly the reason i did this http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=33236.msg397987#msg397987 before spreading my muck.

[Yorkie]

You are right not to jump to conclusions johnnyboy, and I am not definitely saying it's herbicide from the manure.  However, the herbicide only affects certain plants - so the fact that weeds are unaffected is not necessary relevant.  Also, the damage tends to show on newer growth and (if i recall correctly, I'm not 100% sure) not necessarily on the first few pairs of leaves.

[Aunt Sally]

You are correct in all you've said there Yorkie !

[cathangirl]

Sorry to add to the gloom, but it is reckoned the stuff lasts in the soil for two years at least.

If it taken up by animals and passed through their systems, what the hell are we eating and drinking from the meat and milk?!!!!!!!

cathangirl

[TheModfather]

Yes. I dont want to act too fast, however, from the same batch of beans I have grown some in the ground and some in a pot. The ones in the pot are at least 50% taller than the others and look perfectly healthy - these pots didn't contain the manure!

Anyway, I've got some more potatoes on the go now so will try again. With regards to the soil from the raised beds, I plan to spread it around the rest of the garden over plants it doesn't affect and that we don't eat. One question however is:

Do you believe it is safe to eat the produce from the infected soil? On the DOW website it says it is but it sounds like some pretty dodgy stuff and a pretty dodgy company in that matter to be fair.

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone!

[Ivor Backache]

Yes, you can test for it. It involves growing several post of pbroad beans and monitoring them for 4 weeks. I found this on the DOW website:

"Testing manure

   1. Thoroughly mix 1 part manure with 1 part multi-purpose compost in a clean bucket. Prepare enough to fill four 5-inch pots.
   2. Fill another four clean pots solely with multi-purpose compost. These will be the untreated comparisons.
   3. Place each of the pots in a separate saucer to prevent water from one pot reaching another.
   4. Water the pots and leave to stand for 24 hours.
   5. Plant each pot with four broad bean seeds.
   6. Observe subsequent growth for a four-week period and note any ill effects in the pots containing the manure mix, such as cupped leaves and fernlike growth on new shoots.

These symptoms may indicate aminopyralid residue in the manure. Signs of other kinds of damage will most likely indicate other issues such as damping off or bacteria-infected soil, etc."

I'll have a go this weekend anyway. But I know, its so annoying!!!

My plan is to just to completely empty the raised beds next year and refill them a fresh mixture of topsoil and compost. Potentially very costly though!

I am probably like the majority of gardeners. If I was offered bags of manure I would gladly accept them without thinking. Reading this thread has alarmed me. Reading all the associated threads makes me believe that manure is now a nono.  There is a more recent thread about whether to have cow manure or horse manure  and people talk as if there is nothing to worry about.
Can the moderators in some way secure this thread at the top like the paper pots and runner beans so that everyone can read it and be aware of the issues. All manure now has to be tested and Modfather'S suggestion is about right. It can be used on the Sutton broad bean in autumn and if the manures is OK then you will have some early beans. If not you do not use the manure. This would apply to all manure whether cow, horse or even poultry, because the source cannot be trusted.

[Yorkie]

Ivor, thanks for your suggestion.

In fact there are already a couple of comprehensive threads in the Grow Your Own Stickies board, Useful Links

The threads refer to Persistent Herbicide in Manure so are easy to find.

The only stickies on the main board are seasonal, and will be removed from the main board into the Useful Links board when no longer seasonal.  There are so many different useful GYO topics that they have to be kept together on the Useful Links sticky rather than on the main board.

[Ivor Backache]

Thank you Yorkie1. I have tended to read the 'grow your own' section and just browse the rest. I note that Aminopyride has only been suspended. The onus will probably fall on the farmer to dispose of his manure in a safe way, regardless. That in turn means allotment holders cannot have it, nor indeed can multipurpose compost manufacturers have it..
I hope that allotment holders burn their affected plants. Composting them will probably prolong the problem.
The suggestion to have to rotovate an allotment for upto 3 years, (without any produce) must be soul destroying.

[TheModfather]

Just a quick update on whats been going on in my garden following the recent scare. I got hold of some seed potatoes - they are second earlies - 'wilja'.

They have all gone into containers filled with soil conditioner/compost as the soil in my garden is now unsuitable to mix in with it obviously. Anyway, the containers range from old water butts - to bins - to bin liners and are dotted all over the bottom of the garden.

Doesherbicide going to be safe to eat???

Thanks very much.

[Yorkie]

The manufacturers and Defra say there is no risk to human health if eating produce grown in herbicided manure.   Ultimately, it has to be your choice though

[TheModfather]

Yes, it is really. My thoughts are though, that when eating stuff from supermarkets, we must be eating a large amount of this rubbish inadvertantly - although its worrying - it doesnt seem to do us any real harm - just a fact of life.

[TheModfather]

Just a bit of an update. I have begun the long and emotionally painful task of replacing the soil in my raised beds, starting with destroying the existing crops and then emptying them. 1 down, 3 more to go! 



(The carrot containers are going too - when I get the energy!)

[RichardA]

wonder if the manure has made conditions too acid, long shot but perhaps a slight dose of lime worked in is worth a try and see if that makes any difference. Beans can manage without the tips so taking off affected leaves might also help.
However must say I think the others are right.
R