[Lady Lottie]

okayyyyyy.........*sharpens pencil and whips out notebook*  makes note - must remember to look up pyralid - no idea what that is but sounds 'orrible.  And I bet I have it.

What are lazy beds please?  They sound right up my street!! 

I get the thing with the weeds now - thanks.   So - back to spuds - I could actually not bother digging the bed over and just stick a trowel in where I want to put a potato and that is it?  Really!? :blink:  Have I got that right?  And just remove any unwanted weedy roots or bits as I earth them up?

I definitely would like to try growing pots, carrots, and garlic to start.  Not keen on broad beans but - I hold my hands up - I have never tasted home grown ones - might I be pleasantly surprised?  It's those leathery little jackets they have on that stick in your throat! Yak! Blech!  And onions.....well, I use soooo many to cook with I don't think I'd keep up and they are so cheap to buy....is there a benefit to the plot from growing onions that  I might miss out on though?  Ooo!  What about leeks instead?  I love leeks.

[Lady Lottie]

Not a daft question at all, in fact I find your questions refreshingly well thought out.

Thank yooooo......... there will be many, MANY more!!!  :blink:

Euuughhhhhhh..........I just Googled pyralid - destructive little bleeders aren't they!? I don't want any of them!  How would I know whether any manure I got was pyralid free then??

[treacleminer]

Hi Lady Lottie - I'm really impressed by how much work you've done - makes my efforts in the garden look pathetic.

I think the pyralid problem referred to may actually be the anti-pyralid which was killing peoples crops last year

http://www.allotment-garden.org/garden-diary/257/aminopyralid-herbicide-residue-in-manure-killing-crops/

No idea how you test though I'm sure someone knows

[Lady Lottie]

OHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!  even WORSE!  I was reading about moths!!    But they ruin your veg too!    Thank you treacleminer.

[woodburner]

Actually on second thoughts I wouldn't try no-dig potatoes over bramble stumps. There's still a lot of strength in cut down bramble plants, enough to lift up or tear through the cardboard and mulch, and you can't go pulling up brambles like you can couch grass!

That in turn means you don't need manure 'til the autumn. Manure spread and forked in, in the autumn means the soil microbes have plenty of time to break down any 'pyralid before the next growing season. So no worries about aminopyralid either!

The no-dig method of growing potatoes, involves putting down a layer of cardboard or several thicknesses of newspaper, overlapped by about 6", then a layer of well rotted manure, up to 6" deep if you can get it, but 2" will just about do if you can't get much. You then plant the spuds into the manure, (on top of the cardboard) and use straw to "earth" up. They look a bit like strawberries for a while!  When the spuds start forming you need to cover the straw with a light proof layer, such as grass clippings, I think compost or more manure would work too. I actually used topsoil from elsewhere in the garden.

Lazy beds are no-dig beds (4ft wide by 8-12ft long) but with the soil from the paths dug out and put on the bed to raise it. Some people round the tops, I rake mine level to start with, but they usually end up rounded as I plant stuff right on the edge of the flattened area.
I have quite narrow paths on the long sides of mine, only about a boot's length wide, but I'm making a much wider path (along the ends for wheelbarrow access.

[Lady Lottie]

Thanks Woodburner.  I have never read anything about this way of growing potatoes!  Is it your very own method??!   IYO are the benefits purely to the individual (as in a lot less digging) or does it make a difference to the crop as well?

So lazy beds are a bit like raised beds without any formal wooden edging - have I got that right?  I like the idea of raised beds just so that everything looks organised and  is (relatively) easy to maintain and I don't seem to read much against the idea of raised beds.  What do you think about them? Tell me when you get sick of all the questions btw...   I don't want to annoy people!! You just seem like a really good font of all knowledge!!  Thanks.

Lottie

[woodburner]

It's slightly adapted from the organic gardening handbook. IIRC they put the manure down first, but then you'd have to punch holes through the cardboard to plant the spuds, and the weeds would come through the holes! So I changed it, but I'm sure I've read somewhere else of putting the cardboard first.
I think the benefits are only to the individual, I don't have any basis for comparison yet though.  Harvesting is easy too, as the spuds are either in the straw or just on the surface of the ground. 

So lazy beds are a bit like raised beds without any formal wooden edging - have I got that right? 

That's how I would describe them except that 'raised beds' seems inextricably linked with wood in most peoples' minds.
I usually refrain from posting my opinion of the wooden version as they are so popular, I just chip in with 'lazy beds' whenever I'm not too late.
For some reason almost everyone seems to jump straight from the idea of traditional big beds with everything in rows to wooden raised beds, when in fact there are other options. No-dig beds don't need to be raised at all, but have a lot of advantages. Raised beds or lazy beds are only really needed if drainage is a problem. I see the wooden walls as unnecessary, and environmentally unfriendly, and they almost invariably lead to the need for tons of topsoil to be trasported in. On a more personal level they are more work, and will eventually need replacing - more work again. They are also immovable, and provide hiding places for slugs and snails and weeds. (Try digging up bindweed from under the edge of a raised bed!)

I have quite a lot of experience on clearing and preparing ground, and general gardening, but when it comes to veg I am a beginner. If you ask me which is the best way to grow a veg, I won't know the answer. (e.g. spuds as above) 

[Helen_uk]

Hey lady lottie,

Also very new to all this, we started on our allotment this weekend, put the base down for when our shed gets delivered, and I started on doing some digging.

Sorry, to ask a question within your post but there seem to be some very knowledgeable people in here!

I dug over a 6x4ft area on saturday, ended up on my hands and knees for near on 3 hours, pulling out roots and roots and roots of something which another plotter has identified for me as TWITCH. I filled a full carrier bag full, and there still loads to be picked out.

Is this the only way to get rid of this? I want to try to be organic so don't want to put anything chemical down really.

Good luck Lady lottie, you seem very determined to get this done - keep us posted!!

[Lady Lottie]

Hello Helen UK

Twitch otherwise known as Couch Grass - sound like I know what I'm on about don't i? lol  Not really, I Googled it - try this link!  It might help.  http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1004/couchgrasscontrol.asp

I think its just a case of digging, digging and more digging - or chemicals   In a week or two I will probably be doing exactly the same as you!

Think we will both need the best of British!

[woodburner]

Twitch/couch is a totally different beast from brambles. Give me nice thick overgrown brambles anyday!   

As you've only just got the plot, I presume you have all the top growth to deal with as well. I find when 'digging' it's easier with a fork. A spade chops up the roots, making lots of bits to be picked out, a fork combs through the roots leaving long lengths sicking out of the undug ground, when you dig the next strip, the soil free ends are easier to see and tease out of the clod. I have some couch on my lottie, that didn't get totally killed by the (too thin) mulching fabric I used, and I spend two or three times as long pulling out the roots as I do actually 'digging'!

On the plus side, you can grow no-dig potatoes, cucurbits can be planted through mulch, and probably brassicas too.

[Bombers]

Take your time with the 'twitch'. be VERY THOROUGH! it will pay dividends later on in the growing (fun) part. It pays to wait until your ground is reasonably 'friable' or dry enough to break up the clods by hand if necessary, to tease out the roots whole. If you leave even a small piece (1" or so long), it will re-grow quite quickly! If you think that's a b**tard you should try bindweed! :blink:

[Lady Lottie]

Take your time with the 'twitch'. be VERY THOROUGH! it will pay dividends later on in the growing (fun) part. It pays to wait until your ground is reasonably 'friable' or dry enough to break up the clods by hand if necessary, to tease out the roots whole. If you leave even a small piece (1" or so long), it will re-grow quite quickly! If you think that's a b**tard you should try bindweed! :blink:

I've got lots of bindweed...   am dreading finding out how bad it really is under the surface...

[Bombers]

Take your time with the 'twitch'. be VERY THOROUGH! it will pay dividends later on in the growing (fun) part. It pays to wait until your ground is reasonably 'friable' or dry enough to break up the clods by hand if necessary, to tease out the roots whole. If you leave even a small piece (1" or so long), it will re-grow quite quickly! If you think that's a b**tard you should try bindweed! :blink:

I've got lots of bindweed...   am dreading finding out how bad it really is under the surface...

Roundup is your friend I'm affraid. I have an area of my patch that is still riddled with the stuff (Looks like spaghetti). I tried digging some over on Sunday, but the earth is still quite wet, and as you lift the fork, you can hear the damn stuff 'snapping.' - I'm throwing in a  line of Desiree (spuds), to try and keep it back a bit, as most is on a neighbouring plot.

[Lady Lottie]

  :(Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!  I don't wanna make friends with Roundup!

*sigh*

[noshed]

In my opinion (head gardener of scruffy plot 50a) sometimes you just have to live with a certain amount of "stuff". There's no point knocking yourself out digging bindweed etc when you don't enjoy it. I gave my plot a good single dig over when I first got it, mainly with a fork, and since then I have glyphosated Japanese Knotweed and some of the bindweed.
I have dug in loads of compost and manure and the soil is quite good now I think. This will undoubtedly mean a big flush of weeds any time soon but I will fork out most of them and glyphosate the bindweed where I can.
Then I will sow and plant things and keep the rows hoed as best I can, sharpening my hoe as I go (good tip).
Then in the summer I will make time to sit in front of my shed with a cup of tea and listen to the bees buzzing.
My plot will be nowhere as good and tidy as some of my neighbours, who practically live on the site but some of my crops will be as good as theirs. (I am quite proud of my leeks and kale this winter.)
I still get excited when I open the gate to the site and then walk around my plot having a look at what everything is doing. If it's all hard labour it's no fun and what would be the point of that?