[Lady Lottie]

Was a gorgeous day today - felt like Spring!  Spent a lovely morning on the allotment, clearing the piles of rubbish and junk into a big skip.  The resident Robin kept coming to inspect our progress which is just lovely it only took us just over 2 hours to brim the skip.  Hope the council will send another one quickly - fresh nettles are already appearing on the spots we have cleared!!

[Lady Lottie]

...had to make sure the skip was full today so that nobody else thought they could "help" to fill it!

[Lady Lottie]

So my bit now looks like this!   And I'm really proud of it!  Even though it is a barren, scrubby horror of an allotment...lol...I'm loving it already

[Christine]

Hey Lady Lottie - get some big hefty pots, fill them with compost and grow carrots, lettuce, rocket, spring onions, strawberries and anything else anyone suggests. This will mean that you get a crop off the plot whilst you are fighting the soil. This will give you a season to get to grips with the recurrent nightmares, find out what the soil is really like and what you need to do to get the best out of it after removing the weeds. 

Half of my allotment was a weed bed the first season (2007)and spent a year under green manure to cure the problem as well as to feed the soil. It was worth the year spent working on clearing the weed problem as I grew as much as we could eat in 2008.

[Lady Lottie]

Thanks Christine   Ooo!  Green manure - I've read snippets about this being a great way to feed the soil AND suppress nasties bleeders like bindweed too.  But where do I buy the seed from?  Please could you make any suggestions?  Thanks!  Oh - and "hello"!

[woodburner]

Kings/Suffolk herbs do quite a few, others sell some as sprouting seeds e.g. alfalfa and fenugreek. I wouldn't worry about them until you've got the edible stuff sorted though. There are fast growing ones that can be sown where crops have been harvested and some that can be planted sown in the autumn to grow through the winter too.

Grass clippings have their uses in moderation, but I'd want to know what weedkiller they use before accepting any.
They can heat up a slow compost heap and they can be used to exclude light from no dig spuds.

[Lady Lottie]

Thanks woodburner.  I have already emailed the bowling sectretary actually, asking if he can find out excactly what the green is treated with as he has offered me turf and topsoil too.  I stupidly said I would take it off his hands before I though of this little dilemma!   he replied to say he would find out but haven't heard anything yet.

Maybe I will file the green manure idea for future use then.   Thanks for the supplier info.

[Christine]

Green manures - http://www.organiccatalogue.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_51 - tells you all of the ones that you can get.  Nice little write ups against each product.

Can't think of anywhere else that is as lucid in explanation of what there is, when to plant and what each one does.

I've found them ok.

[Lady Lottie]

That's great Christine - many thanks indeed - I am saving all the websites and links people are kindly suggesting to keep for future reference.  There is so much to take in and so many decisions to be made!  Green manuring feels umm..how can I put it..a bit..."advanced"  I suppose..?  as I am totally new to all this "serious" gardening.

[woodburner]

Green manures are a bit 'avant garde', so you have to look hard to find really practical info. You're probably going to be quite limited on space this first year (though at the rate you have been going I wouldn't put money on that! ) and as your ground has been fallow for so long, manure of any kind is not really a priority.  Stick to classic basics for now, and grow what you like the most.



Edit in italics, don't know how I missed that typo.

[Lady Lottie]

Thanks Woodburner.  The council man who initially showed me the site suggested spuds for my first crop - he said the help break up the soil (though I have since read that this is bunkum and that its the planting and earthing up that does that! what's your opinion?) and he also said the fact that they have so much foliage blocks the light from as many weeds growing back.  I'm assuming he knows what he is talking about - he has a degree in horticulture.  My plan was to sort out my site one strip at a time if you like, and put potatoes in the first raised bed I make, see how I go for time, money, supplies etc and the take it from there.

Is the fact the land has been fallow for so long reason to suppose it should have plenty of nutrients in it at the moment then?  Because no crops have been grown on it?  (Do weeds use up less nutrients?)  Sorry if these are daft questions.....

[noshed]

I found that marking out 4' wide beds with string was helpful. I could then dig one bed at a time. It would be worth thinking about the orientation of the beds as well - to get the most benefit from the wall and to avoid shanding one bed completely. You might be glad of a bit of shade for your lettuce in the summer.
It would be no harm to mark out a bed and put spuds in anyway - they are cheap and easy to grow. Just go to Wilkos or somewhere and get a bag.
Personally I would get some glyphosate and, when you've dig over a bed, wait for a couple of weeks and then zap anything that dares to regrow. You can be as organic as you like after that.
I would use the bowling green topsoil on the dug over beds as well - anything they have used will leach out soon. When you take over any plot you don't know what people have been up to before (apart from, on my case, a failed attempt to compost an entire chipboard kitchen.) So it will take a few years to get it as you want it anyway.
I expect other people have advised you to stack the turves for a year or so - you are supposed to get lovely compost from that.
I use an azada as well - it is like a huge mattock, whioch is good for getting roots out. There's a link on this site about it. But some old-fashioned hardware shops sell mattocks as well.
The council black plastic will be great for warming up the soil after you've dug a bed, as well as for trying to keep the weeds down on undug beds. But I would think seriously about glyphosate in the first year. It does make the job less demoralising.
Good luck!

[Lady Lottie]

Thank you noshed that all sounds like straight forward, very sensible advice.  I will defnitely look up an azada or mattock - never even heard of either of these mysterious things!  I'm intrigued!

[Lady Lottie]

....by the way that is something else I was wondering about - ideas for things to plant by the wall in the shady area.   Any other suggestions please..?  Thanks.

[woodburner]

Yes, spuds are a good first crop. You are right the spuds don't break up the ground themselves, it's the planting, earthing up and final harvesting that do that. The frequent disturbance of the soil, as well as the foliage cover both help with the weeds.

If you have a source of well rotted manure, (also needs to be pyralid free ) cardboard and straw, no-dig potatoes will achive the same with a lot less work. Unfortunately pyralid is very prevalent.

I'd get carrots, onions, garlic and broad beans in first as they are hardy (and my favourites). Potatoes are vulnerable to frost so are IMHO better left for a bit longer. Also, I wouldn't worry about raised beds for potatoes (but I only do lazy beds anyway ), I actually grew mine on ground that was compacted to start with! The only breaking up I did was in the autumn, while harvesting, and the soil is absolutely lovely now. I'm making four lazy beds in that area, one of which I am going to keep for a seed bed it's so nice! Think of potatoes as ground preparation rather than needing prepared ground.

It's not that weeds use less nutrients ( I don't think they do actually, anyway) it's the fact that for many years they have died and rotted in situ. On the spot composting if you like. Not a daft question at all, in fact I find your questions refreshingly well thought out.