[Steve.P]

Hi Karooba,

When you are on the plot next, try digging a few sample holes, one at each corner and a few in the middle. By doing this you should get some idea of what your up against. I know what you are saying about it being to much hassle. You just want to plant veg in the soil and see it grow. If its as bad as you say i dont think it will be worth your while. Dont feel bad about it, give it up and find another site.

[Gardeningguru]

On sunday I am going to dig a small part of the plot and see how deep it is. the problem is that its so elastic that its hard to get it up.

Karooba,  Clay does not spell disaster, I would prefer it to, to say a "too fine" of a sandy soil.  It will take ALOT of work, but the result will be a decent soil eventually.  An it certainly wont' be shy of nutrients.

Clay can be a camel brown, and you will probably find that more familiar gray/blue type beneath it.  It does feel like play-dough to begin with if you have a vein of pure clay beneath your plot.

You seem preoccupied about the depth. Don't worry about the depth, even if it were 20 feet deep, your only concerned about the top 3-4 feet.  An that is the part you need to work lots of organic matter into.
I wouldn't recommend removing a two or three foot layer off the whole plot and replacing it anyway.

Muck is what you need!  Some well rotted stuff, and plenty of garden compost too, work it through well, bit by bit, foot by foot.  It may mean your limited on growing for one season, but hey, gardening is a long haul anyway.

If you don't fancy digging it all, build a raised bed or two, and fill it with the best of what you have laying around, and work compost into it.  It need'nt cost the earth.  You can get one knocked up for next to nothing.  An remember Rome was not built in a day!  Perservere and in no time you will have a decent plot to play with.

[Clampit]

The clay on most of my plot is one spades depth down, but 1/4 of it is solid clay. I just turned it over and got loads of muck into it. It's hard work. Has everyone got raised beds on your site?
However, like someone else has said, if it is completely solid clay (No top soil) you may be better looking for another site.

[Goosegirl]

Sorry about your problem - but - DON'T GIVE UP!!! My soil is heavy silt and was a field so it has only 4-6" topsoil then I meet a hard pan of clag. Incorporating grit, lime (to bind the fine clay particles together), lots of manure will help but it takes time to work. I have raised beds using old scaff boards but, as money is tight, how about your local recycling site (or web site if the council does one) or advertising for free in the local rag, or asking around if anyone has anything suitable. At a push, you could hammer in some small posts and staple on some polythene like old animal feed bags cut in half lengthwise to edge your beds - not ideal but cheap. Re- the time to get things done, how about inviting your friends to a gardening party - lots of digging and so on and a boozy barbie to finish off!

[karooba007]

On sunday I am going to dig a small part of the plot and see how deep it is. the problem is that its so elastic that its hard to get it up.

Karooba,  Clay does not spell disaster, I would prefer it to, to say a "too fine" of a sandy soil.  It will take ALOT of work, but the result will be a decent soil eventually.  An it certainly wont' be shy of nutrients.

Clay can be a camel brown, and you will probably find that more familiar gray/blue type beneath it.  It does feel like play-dough to begin with if you have a vein of pure clay beneath your plot.

You seem preoccupied about the depth. Don't worry about the depth, even if it were 20 feet deep, your only concerned about the top 3-4 feet.  An that is the part you need to work lots of organic matter into.
I wouldn't recommend removing a two or three foot layer off the whole plot and replacing it anyway.

Muck is what you need!  Some well rotted stuff, and plenty of garden compost too, work it through well, bit by bit, foot by foot.  It may mean your limited on growing for one season, but hey, gardening is a long haul anyway.

If you don't fancy digging it all, build a raised bed or two, and fill it with the best of what you have laying around, and work compost into it.  It need'nt cost the earth.  You can get one knocked up for next to nothing.  An remember Rome was not built in a day!  Perservere and in no time you will have a decent plot to play with.

Yes, It is pure clay and its texture is like play-dough but a little tougher. It's a layer that is 1 spade from the surface of the soil and seems to be continuous (like a pan, not sections). It's not easy to dig with a garden fork either. Its colour is completely different to the soil above it, that’s what gets me (makes me think it was dumped, site might have been a brick making yard or something like that)

[penance]

Thats not so bad you know, double dig so as you break up the lower clay layer and incorperate as much organic matter as you can, along with grit and lime.

[outmowed]

what ever the plastic is i would get rid of it, someone must have put it down as a weed supresent before you came. you cant be serious about plastic occuring in soil naturally though can you?

[Gardeningguru]

Yes, It is pure clay and its texture is like play-dough but a little tougher. It's a layer that is 1 spade from the surface of the soil and seems to be continuous (like a pan, not sections). It's not easy to dig with a garden fork either. Its colour is completely different to the soil above it, that’s what gets me (makes me think it was dumped, site might have been a brick making yard or something like that)

How it came to be, does not matter.  Sadly for you, it just means you have two choices.

(1) Dig rotted down manure an compost into it as thoroughly as you can. Worms and Mother nature will do the rest. (and time).

(2)  Raised beds.

(please note:  Give up was not an option)  

All thats left to say is Get digging!  Enjoy it!  Some people pay a fortune down gyms for that kind of a workout.   Seriously though, good luck with it, and don't worry about clay,  with work it will make a very decent growing medium indeed!

[penance]

what ever the plastic is i would get rid of it, someone must have put it down as a weed supresent before you came. you cant be serious about plastic occuring in soil naturally though can you?

No one mentioned plastic??

[Gardeningguru]

what ever the plastic is i would get rid of it, someone must have put it down as a weed supresent before you came. you cant be serious about plastic occuring in soil naturally though can you?

No one mentioned plastic??

I think the Opening post(er) (OP) mentioned plastic type material, when he was talking about the texture of the clay layer.   I am sure he didn't literally mean plastic as in the artifical stuff us humans created.

But yes, if there was plastic quite literally layed down, id rip it up as well.
Everyones correct.

Unfortunately for the OP though, all the advice has gone down the same path, and that is good old fashioned elbow grease and some muck!

[mumofstig]

As i've said before my soil is dark but the clay underneath is yellowclay. So the difference in colour between top soil and subsoil is not at all unusual.

Double dig one part this year for roots, as these are the main things that need deep soil. Then next year double dig the bit that you are moving the roots to....and so on. Over the space of a few years it will all get double dug. This digging alone will help with most water problems and if you read the posts on here you will see that alot of people have very wet plots at this time of year and still grow loads of veg. So can you

[karooba007]

Hi Karooba,

When you are on the plot next, try digging a few sample holes, one at each corner and a few in the middle. By doing this you should get some idea of what your up against. I know what you are saying about it being to much hassle. You just want to plant veg in the soil and see it grow. If its as bad as you say i dont think it will be worth your while. Dont feel bad about it, give it up and find another site.

U know how I feel.

[Stripey_cat]

Where are you in the country?  Some places, no-one would think to mention clay as everywhere for twenty miles is like that!  You *can* get excellent crops off clay soil with a bit of effort: it is very fertile.  You just need to add lots of manure or compost (bascially, lots of humus) to stop it compacting into bricks.  You may also find that things like parsnips and carrots need to go into pots or raised beds (or alternatively make a hole for each one with a crowbar, and pour in spent potting compost or similar) to get decent length of roots as they clay is too heavy for them to move as they grow.  Finally, some apple rootstocks aren't good on clay, so check with the nursery before you put in any fruit trees.

[woodburner]

'Fraid I have to differ with some of the advice given. Whatever you do don't try and turn the sticky subsoil into topsoil, it will take years.
One spit depth is plenty for all but prizewinning length parsnips.
If you read up on double digging or even tree planting you will find warnings to keep the topsoil seperate and avoid mixing infertile subsoil into it.

[Steve.P]

U know how I feel.
[/quote]

Yes i do know exactly how you feel. The thing is, there is enough to do during the planting and growing season, without the worry of this type of soil. If it's as bad as you say you could have all your crops planted, then along comes one downpour and the whole place is a lake. Check your area for other allotment sites, and talk to the growers there. Most importantly, don't give up the dream of growing your own, it may just take a little longer than you wanted. Good Luck!