[Markus The Veg]

I'd appreciate a bit of advice, my books are giving me a head ache!

Well, I read a book and was happy with the suggested main rotation groups, and the veg belonging to each group - roots, brassicas, legumes/others and maybe potatoes in a separate bed.

Unfortunately, I then read another book which suggested the same set-up except this book suggested that onions should go in with the roots instead of the legumes as stated in book 1.

To solve this I read a third book. Book 3 seemed to concur with book 1, stick my onions in the same section as the roots. Unfortunately book 3 then goes on to tell me that radish, swede and turnip belong in the brassica section, where as book 1 told me to put them in the root section.

Is somebody just plain wrong, or can I take it that with my plot spilt into the four groups, those particular veggies are inter-changeable between the groups mentioned.

[Annie]

I seem to remember this and just wait until you add in overwintering stuff!I made column headings of the different groups and then matched what I wanted to grow with those,this tells you what amount of a bed  you might need for each.Also it depends on how much space you have so you can follow on eg leeks in when you harvest early potatoes.Anyway if you make a note of where you plant things then next year you can rotate to different areas,things won`t be perfect until you get afell for how things fit together and one persons rotation may not suit your space or the amounts of different veg that you want.I still tweak my rotation every year
 !Sorry forgot to say my list of veg types went more kind of alliums,brassicas,curcubits,potatoes etc.I always found the `roots,peas/bean big group confusing.

[richyrich7]

Hi
From my own experience don't put members of the onion family with your legumes esp runner beans neither crop seems to do as well together,
Sweede, turnip, radish are in fact brassicas, but I always grow them with my roots, except radishes which go in with my salad bed  :?
I grow as follows
Bed 1 Roots inc turnip and swede
Bed 2 legumes
Bed 3 Brassicas
Bed 4 Potatoes.
as a general rule but I do experiment  
If your growing tom's outside remember they are a member of the potato family so tend to suffer the same problems.
Hope this helps

[Trillium]

Peas do just as badly near onions, Richyrich7. But summer savory and legumes seem to love each other's presence - some of that companion planting business, but it works.  

As for the onion family, it's good to know that asparagus, colchicums, daffodils, tulips, amaryllis, most lilies and all alliums are also part of the greater lilium family and dislike being planted too close to one another, and least of all, where the other was growing. It's something to keep in mind to minimize fighting 'between the kids'  

[DD.]

Peas do just as badly near onions,

I've never heard this one before. I had a big onion patch next to my peas last year and had the best ever crop of both!!!!!!!!

[philmay]

Hi
try this.

Bed 1 Potatoes            
Bed 2 Peas and beans  
Bed 3 Brassicas            
Bed 4 Onions
Bed 5 Roots
then move up one bed each year

Squashes,sweetcorn,lettuce,beetroot and spinach just plant anywhere you have room, as they are not very susceptible to soil borne pests and diseases.

taken from gardeners question time, with Bob Flowerdew

[Trillium]

A fluke, I suspect, Digger. Everyone had great peas last year. Try growing them apart and the crops will be still better.  

[Annie]

Everyone had rubbish peas last year in this area probably because ofthe odd weather.I thought it was just me but a short gripe at work unearthed loads of grow your owners!

[Trillium]

That's why it's important to keep records Annie, so that you can be aware of the cycles of crops. Sometimes it's about a 7 year cycle (like in the bible), other times it's alternate years, but mostly its the weather, and if you can record that, you might have an idea where your crops are headed - or not. The last 2 yrs we were swamped with peas, raspberries and potatoes, and dutifully put them away, because most likely this year will be lousy for above mentioned crops. Likewise, our carrots and beets didn't do so well these past 2 yrs, and I suspect we'll get bumper crops this year. Like history, weather has patterns that are repeated.  If you had lousy peas in your area last year, then something else did really well. It's Murphy's Law.  

[Annie]

We had coldwet spring last year,thenhot dry weather followed by dry indifferent then wet.wet,wet after that.Moved here 7-8 years ago,no regular weather pattern yet....

[Trillium]

Sounds like you might want to invest in some larger hoop houses for all your crops, larger homemade versions of the Geoff Hamilton cloches (Design). See Shaun's pics in the album section, he has the framework up of 2.  You'd at least have some control over the cold and wet extended periods. Perhaps this might be your permanent weather in that area? Did you ask any old timers your way?

[Annie]

I`m one of these lonley gardeners,I will become an old timer and already talk to myself!I already have copper pipe hoops and have viromesh over some crops.Also luckier than many as we had no water shortage last year. This year I will be mulching a bit more.

[muntjac]

ok folks this is how i do it , its not a 3 year rotation its a 4 year one and may suit some smaller plots

 you will notice i manure the 2 blocks  for taters an brassicas i do this to give a high feed yield to my plants

 draw 4  rectangles to simulate your plot marked off in 4 blocks
mark each at the bottom with year 1 2 and 3 ,4    respectivly
 now write down the side of year 1 .

year 1
 manure in winter
group 1 early main and late potatos

year 2 .
group 2 ,peas , broad beans,  dwarf & runner beans , celery, leeks and onions

year 3
group 3  carrots,  beetroot,  parsnips,  salsify, root crops should only be grown on soil manured the 2nd year year before or they may become forked and wierd looking.

 manure in winter  and sow / plant over wintering plants
 group 4  are the brassica,s  cabbagaes  brussels sprouts  brocoli , kale, caili's  turnips and swedes

[Markus The Veg]

Thanks all!

Our plot is quite small (about 28*50 ft) so I think taking all the above in to account it might be a good idea to go with four seperate areas, putting the onions in with the roots.

One more thing, richyrich7 mentioned that toms are part of the potato family, does mean it's best to grow them together, to isolate potential problems or keep them apart so one isn't affected  by the other?

I had no idea that taking on allotment would become an all consuming pastime. I love it, I even dream veg now!

[Markus The Veg]

Haha, I was writing that as Muntjac posted, now I've got my onion dilema all over again