[vegmandan]

Although I pesonally try to use as little pesticides as possible, whether they be "Organic" or not, it really annoys me when people are led to believe that "Organics" are in some way harmless.

I wouldnt try drinking a pint of Derris  

Apparently just because something is naturally occuring then it is "Safe" according to the Organic Brigade.

Bordeaux Mixture is now classed as "organic" and therefore assumed to be harmless.

It is made of Copper Sulphate and Calcium Oxide but because it occurs naturally it is "Safe" and "Nice"

Yet again,have a tablespoon of Copper Sulphate and see how you go !!.

So can I cover my Garden in Crude Oil,as this is natural, and class it as Safe ?

I don't think so,and I wouldn't want to think so either..

[gobs]

I do very much endorse this post , but only about the two of us understand it. :shock:

It seems to do more harm to gardening than use in that light, however much true it is, folks are not up to it. They seem to be on the level of knicking forbidden dangerous chemicals to deal with a few bugs, old generation, mostly.

[compostqueen]

Derris is about to get the boot. Links to Parkinson disease apparently

[vegikev]

the problem with organics is that many people think organic is chemical free. an organic farmer will spray his crop a lot more than a convensional farmer as the chemicals (approved by the soil asociation) are less efective. sulpher and copper are used very widely in the organic farming circle. i also believe that the s,a do not carry out tough enouth inspections

[Wildeone]

I do very much endorse this post , but only about the two of us understand it. :shock:

It seems to do more harm to gardening than use in that light, however much true it is, folks are not up to it. They seem to be on the level of knicking forbidden dangerous chemicals to deal with a few bugs, old generation, mostly.

Speak for yourself!  :roll:

[JimG]

I think it's a case of being pragmatic and applying some common sense to the debate about organic gardening (which is practically a tautologous expression in any event).  

Why shouldn't we use technology to control pests, for example, when it is safe to do so?  Yes, there are many 'natural' things that can harm us - arsenic, tobacco.... - and we shouldn't pretend that organics is pure, clean and its followers the only possessors of the truth and the light.  But neither should be turn away from organic principles because of a reaction against what, for many, is seen to be a fad, a trend of little more substance behind it than a penchant for flared trousers.

Being a complete novice, I've looked around second-hand bookshops for anything that can help me learn about what to do with my allotment.  I've come across a few old and not-so-old books that recommend the application of chemical fertilisers without comment as being the most natural thing on Earth.  One author in particular is still on the tele and you'd be forgiven for thinking that this 'inorganic' phase of his career had never happened.  

I think we're all learning and always discovering more about what works and doesn't harm our world, even the 'experts'.  A distaste for the all too common 'lifestyle over substance gurus' shouldn't alter the fact that, in my view at least, there's a lot to be said for organic gardening.


Jim

[Aidy]

Is there an echo in here    I quite agree with Jim's comments and to be honest everything that is being said and I get a little confused in what is organic and what is not, there are some definate no no's and some verging on the kind of's  :?  so like my music, my politics and my religion, I do what and how I want to do it and dont give two hoots to what the establishment say we should do.

[mashauk]

I agree with Aidy!

[gobs]

I hope I'm speaking for gardening and find the title easily reads as an attack on organic gardening, even though the info is true, I hope this was not the intention.

I don't think this movement deserves to be talked down.

And all to their own, but the past practises of industrialised monoculture are leaving infertile land behind.

[compostqueen]

On our plots it's easier to grow on a scale where we can mix crops with flowers and herbs to avoid the monoculture way of growing and thus hopefully reduce pests

A lot of gardeners though like the look of serried ranks of cabbages with plenty of bare soil in between.  Each to their own ey  

[Aidy]

I hope I'm speaking for gardening and find the title easily reads as an attack on organic gardening, even though the info is true, I hope this was not the intention.

I don't think this movement deserves to be talked down.

And all to their own, but the past practises of industrialised monoculture are leaving infertile land behind.

I quite agree, I grow my own as I enjoy growing it, being able to pick it fresh knowing full well it aint been gased or whatever else they do to it. We now bake all our own bread so again we know what goes in. I believe I am growing in an organic manor, may not be to the strict organic standards but the use of chemical is pretty much nil, I dont think it is a big con, I just think it has been taken to the extreme by the advertisers so we are brainwashed into thinking it is better than perhaps it really is. I will continue to control the way I grow my veg (about 98% organic) untill I cant pogo anymore  

[vegmandan]

I am not attacking the Organic gardening movement,I respect people who garden responsibly and think that they aren't harming the environment.
But this is my main point,I am attacking the fact that when most people buy something that is classed as Organic they assume that it isn't harmful to the environment,but many products are.

I know I'm banging on about Bordeaux Mixture but Copper Sulphate is a class 1 Toxic Poison,It is highly toxic to fish and aquatic life and also it is deadly to earthworms and other soil borne insects,so how can this be classed as harmless to the environment.

Also It is widely believed that Organic stuff isn't chemical based.
Copper Sulphate : Chemical Formula CuSO4

I bet if many Organic gardeners actually knew what was contained in some products then they would stop using them.

So It is the fact that you are able to buy highly toxic substances under the Organic banner which people then assume to be safe purely on the basis that they are Organic that really annoys me,and the body responsible for determining what is and what isn't classed as Organic.

[mashauk]

We grow organic as possible, but then no doubt the plants get polluted by the traffic (and possibly even the dump down the road!)

[gus]

i try to grow my veg in an organic way, but i use slug pellets so can't say i'm organic.   The wildlife people on the next plot look down on me for using slug pellets but have put up a bird table over the weekend so now i will have to cover my veg to stop the pigeons devouring enerything :x

[WhippetMaster]

It's like everything in life, a little doesn't hurt but too much and things start to fall off..... :shock:

I bet the stuff we are growing is far healthier than Tesco's.