meat from America

  • 24 Replies
  • 451 Views
*

New shoot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Reading
  • 15551
Re: meat from America
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2020, 20:09 »
The programme broadcast by the BBC did verge into bias in my view, but I think warnings were pretty promptly posted to warn about their agenda these days and to take what they say in some programmes with a big pinch of salt.

I donít think people are anti-American, but there is a lot of strong feeling over the standards of treatment given to farm animals.  I wouldnít buy feedlot meat from the USA, but then I wonít buy some UK produced products - probably ones you would not touch either if they were imported into America. It is the same with products from anywhere.   Saying you donít agree with the methods of some meat production from a country is not the same as saying you donít like that country or have some bias towards it.

I think we can both agree that we would rather eat less meat and know it was raised in a system we feel comfortable with, whichever side of the pond we are sitting on :)

*

Aunt Sally

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Sunny Kent
  • 30141
  • Everyone's Aunty
Re: meat from America
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2020, 22:09 »
I think chlorine washed chicken is something that the UK doesnít want imported as this may allow poorer hygiene procedures in the production chain than we have here.
Important Advice from the NSALG - frequently updated 
  Covid 19 Emergency Measures

*

John

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Clogwyn Melyn, Gwynedd
  • 14898
    • Low Cost Living
Re: meat from America
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2020, 23:51 »
I think chlorine washed chicken is something that the UK doesnít want imported as this may allow poorer hygiene procedures in the production chain than we have here.
On the other hand, I've heard it said that the US system is actually safer for poultry. The problem is extracting real information from political agendas of protectionism and anti-Brexit. Chlorine washed is such an emotive term - OMG they use a chemical!
I think we should look for a consensus of scientific opinion on food safety measures.
There is a strong argument to be made for protectionism with our farming though. I'll save you from a 2,000 word starting at the corn laws and ending up via two world wars at a butter mountain sitting in a wine lake!
First, I will say that I've had a polite warning from moderators about a thread I started that wound up verging into political issues, and a post from me that weighed in on those issues as expressed by others. This thread IMO includes some posts that verge into anti-USA bias and also against other nations. I'm asking only that rules be applied fairly.
I think you're right that we were on the edge of anti-USA bias but I do feel we've kept the thread to the heart of the matter, food production systems. The USA's sheer size enables and encourages methods that sacrifice ecology for economic benefit.
On the plus side, some of the best pioneers of regenerative and sustainable agriculture are based in the USA.


I have seen lurid footage in anti-meat production films, and have also been on such feedlots for poultry, pork, and beef production. There are bad actors in all industries, so take those films with a big grain of salt. The feedlots are not ideal, but are not as bad as the films. There is also a lot of grass-fed beef production in the USA, if UK consumers want that, convince the UK markets to buy those products, rather than corn-fed beef, fattened on feedlots. 
I think we know consumers vote with their wallet - never mind the quality, it's cheap. I go back to saying food in the UK (and most of the west) is too cheap. That's not an easy sell for the politicians...
Check out our books - ideal presents

John and Val Harrison's Books
 

*

mumofstig

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Kent
  • 51760
Re: meat from America
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2020, 10:01 »
I agree John, especially that modern farming is ruining the soil for future generations. It won't be appreciated but we have to regenerate our soil, and not just rely on continually adding more and more artificial fertilisers.

Perhaps we should make English Pastoral by James Rebanks compulsory reading - because it explains what has happened over the last few generations on his own farm. We can't just go back to the 'rural ideal' but we can help the soil and wildlife recover.
Lesley x
I'm not good, I'm not bad - I'm just me, and sometimes I have to apologise for that ;)

*

Aunt Sally

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Sunny Kent
  • 30141
  • Everyone's Aunty
Re: meat from America
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2020, 14:17 »

Chlorine washed is such an emotive term - OMG they use a chemical!

Iím not sure that is a problem.  All of the pre-packed salads we but in the supermarkets are chlorine washed.  All of out tapwater is chlorinated.  And we immerse ourselves in swimming pools full of it.

Our meat, if produced hygienicly, does not need to be chlorine washed.

*

John

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Clogwyn Melyn, Gwynedd
  • 14898
    • Low Cost Living
Re: meat from America
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2020, 18:04 »
Iím not sure that is a problem.  All of the pre-packed salads we but in the supermarkets are chlorine washed.  All of out tapwater is chlorinated.  And we immerse ourselves in swimming pools full of it.

Our meat, if produced hygienicly, does not need to be chlorine washed.
Unfortunately that's not the case. Some 75% of chicken sold is contaminated with Campylobacter according to this report
https://www.newfoodmagazine.com/news/90509/campylobacter-levels-in-british-chicken-the-results-are-in/
which is why the NHS says you shouldn't wash chicken at home prior to cooking
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/never-wash-raw-chicken/
Perhaps we would do well to chlorine wash our chickens here!  :)
Not the most cheery thing to read, sorry!



*

Aunt Sally

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Sunny Kent
  • 30141
  • Everyone's Aunty
Re: meat from America
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2020, 20:49 »
I still believe if you handle and cook your chicken properly, there is not a problem. 

*

al78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Horsham, West Sussex
  • 1114
Re: meat from America
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2020, 09:35 »
I think we know consumers vote with their wallet - never mind the quality, it's cheap. I go back to saying food in the UK (and most of the west) is too cheap. That's not an easy sell for the politicians...

Yes, many people look at the purchase price first, it is the same with clothes, the methods of production are out of sight out of mind, so who cares if other people and animals suffer in the process? It should be added that some people, even in the wealthy UK, live in poverty so they have to look for the cheapest because it is all they can afford, so we should try and avoid lecturing and judging from the position of a privilige of wealth.

It highlights one of the major flaws of the capitalist system, that of externalised costs. Cheap food and goods are cheap because someone else remotely is indirectly subsidising it, maybe through poor or non-existant working regulations, degradation of quality of life, or environmental destruction. The result is that people get punished in the wallet for making ethical or sustainable choices. Until externalised costs are internalilsed or the majority who can afford it add sustainability and ecology to their moral compass, nothing will change.

*

John

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Clogwyn Melyn, Gwynedd
  • 14898
    • Low Cost Living
Re: meat from America
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2020, 09:37 »
I think my point is that the USA approaches food safety / hygiene from a different direction to the EU & UK. It's possible some of their approaches are actually better than our current methods. 
Years ago (I think Queen Victoria was on the throne) I worked in a supermarket on the deli. One of the jobs was wiping the green off a side of bacon with a dilute bleach solution prior to boning and slicing. Possibly not best practice nowadays but we didn't kill any customers. Well, not many  :D

*

John

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Location: Clogwyn Melyn, Gwynedd
  • 14898
    • Low Cost Living
Re: meat from America
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2020, 09:47 »
It highlights one of the major flaws of the capitalist system, that of externalised costs. Cheap food and goods are cheap because someone else remotely is indirectly subsidising it, maybe through poor or non-existant working regulations, degradation of quality of life, or environmental destruction. The result is that people get punished in the wallet for making ethical or sustainable choices. Until externalised costs are internalilsed or the majority who can afford it add sustainability and ecology to their moral compass, nothing will change.
I agree mainly with what you say. I've felt for some time that our economics are out of line with environmental costs and values. Quite how to put it in balance is another question, can some genius come up with the answer, please?


 

Page created in 0.074 seconds with 46 queries.

Powered by SMFPacks Social Login Mod
Powered by SMFPacks SEO Pro Mod |