[chris mutter]

Do we do this Organically, ie Horse Muck. if we do do this is it just spread over the top or dug in.As a new Gardner who twists the ears of the Old Timers, I have been told start Winter Digging September lay the Horse Muck over the top and allow the worms to do their magic, others say dig it all spread the muck and re dig again, guess that would be over a few weeks. Also do we dig a Rut and throw all our foliage leaves in to rot down. Thank You Chris.

[mumofstig]

Welcome to the forum
There's some advice here
https://www.allotment-garden.org/composts-fertilisers/farmyard-animal-manures-to-improve-soil-fertility/

Personally, if the soil is fairly weed-free, and the manure is well-rotted (ie not smelly) then I'm all for leaving the manure on the top over winter and let the worms do the work, then in the spring it just needs a light forking over.
Digging it in also works but there's a lot more effort involved

[JimB]

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The problem with leaving it on top is that nitrogen is volatile and evaporates, so it is best to dig it in.

[mumofstig]

The other point to make, is that the no-dig people always just layer their manure on the top each year - so I can't see it making that much difference, whether you dig it in, or not

[Plot 1 Problems]

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The problem with leaving it on top is that nitrogen is volatile and evaporates, so it is best to dig it in.

The nitrogen from ammonia is susceptable to evaporation, particular in warm and windy weather, but the nitrogen bound in organic compounds takes a long time to break down by bacteria. whilst not digging it will lose some nitrogen, there's still plenty of goodness in muck left on the surface rather than dug in.

http://cceonondaga.org/resources/nitrogen-basics-the-nitrogen-cycle 

[snowdrops]

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The problem with leaving it on top is that nitrogen is volatile and evaporates, so it is best to dig it in.

Hi could you expand on that a bit please, volatile as in how? Have you any evidence of this please?

[Plot 1 Problems]

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The problem with leaving it on top is that nitrogen is volatile and evaporates, so it is best to dig it in.

Hi could you expand on that a bit please, volatile as in how? Have you any evidence of this please?

Hi Snowdrops,

As mentioned in the article I linked above, Urea will naturally break down rapidly in into ammonia gas (the reason why pee can be so smelly, any men's pub toilet will demonstrate!) but that's only one source of nitrogen in manure and not really the one gardeners are that interested in. The organic nitrogen compounds are the important part as they're slowly released for the plants.

[Subversive_plot]

To get even more "scientific" about nitrogen:

Total nitrogen = Total Kjeldahl nitrogen (or TKN) + Nitrate and nitrite nitrogen.

The TKN is the sum of nitrogen in the inorganic compounds ammonia and ammonium (NH3/NH4+) plus nitrogen in organic compounds, including proteins in the tissues of plants (and manure, etc.) but also including urea.  Much of the organic nitrogen is released slowly through decomposition of organic matter, but urea nitrogen is available more quickly.  The ammoniacal forms of nitrogen are inorganic forms, available for plant uptake, and will tend to make soil more acid (lower pH); they are also more volatile, with losses to the atmosphere.

The nitrate and nitrite N forms are inorganic nitrogen, also plant available, and tend to raise soil pH (make the soil more basic).  Nitrate and nitrite are the most water-soluble and are readily washed through soil with excess rainfall.  Denitrification (through bacterial processes) can also lead to loss of N to the atmosphere.

Biological processes can make nitrogen convert from one form of nitrogen to another.  Look up "nitrogen cycle" and you will get a good idea of what the relationships are between different forms of nitrogen, plants, soil, and the atmosphere.

If you use more fertilizer in the organic forms, you will lose less nitrogen to the air or to groundwater.  Inorganic forms have their place, if you need a more rapid response to fertilizer application.

[chris mutter]

Looks like I will get chastised and greeted at the same time now, Hope some of these Old Timers don't go arrogant on me if I take the easy route, (don't ask advice if your not going to listen) I can hear it now. Think I will leave it a year. Thank You Chris
 

[wolveryeti]

RHS suggests doing this in Spring to avoid nutrient loss:

'Well rotted composts and manures will be relatively poor in soluble nutrients but rich in insoluble ones. On most soils they are best incorporated by cultivation in spring (March and April  in most of the UK) just before growth starts. Sandy soils are best manured from late winter. However, autumn application can also work on all but sandy soils. The cold soil will slow breakdown over winter. Avoid applying in late summer as the warm soil can lead to significant nutrient loss as the materials will breakdown quickly to produce soluble nutrients easily washed out (leached) by winter rains. On a garden scale it is often feasible to cover vegetable beds with a plastic sheet to shed excess rain and retain valuable nutrients.

Fresh manures are rich in soluble nutrients and are best composted before use but if applied fresh best done in spring so the soluble nutrients are not washed out into ground water, ditches or drains where they can be a pollution hazard '

[CHRISDONOHUE]

Our allotments have access to fairly cheap (25p a barrow-load) horse manure in straw at the plot.  I get it in the autumn, leave it to rot down in a stack on my plot, which benefits the area on which it is stacked, then use it in the spring or summer dug in underneath plants for maximum benefit.   I increase the potash by adding wood ash gathered from underneath an open incinerator at the allotment.    Previously, when fresh manure was not available all year round, I used fresh manure as a mulch on crops.

[jambop]

It is certainly an interesting topic ... just where do you want that manure or is it the by products? Well I know that logic tells me where the roots of the plants feeding on it will be. I for that reason would have thought digging it into the soil below the top four or five inches would be best. That was of course before I started following the way of the Guru Mr Dowding and went not dig. So for now I put it on the top of the existing soil and then cover this with compost allowing the microbes and beasties to work their magic. However if we look at what farmers do, they spread it on the surface and then plow it anything up to 30cm below the surface On the whole I like the no dig idea now where over time the bed becomes a very nutrient rich deep bed of moisture retentive lovely soil.

[Subversive_plot]

Looks like I will get chastised and greeted at the same time now, Hope some of these Old Timers don't go arrogant on me if I take the easy route, (don't ask advice if your not going to listen) I can hear it now. Think I will leave it a year. Thank You Chris

Chris, I hope you don't feel like anyone here is chastising you (?)  I don't think anyone that posted an answer intended that at all.

[rowlandwells]

we use horse manure on our allotments and have done for many years  we found using horse manure spread on the ground prior to ploughing stopped the ground from capping  we followed up  this year with spreading a straw mulch so the ground  has plenty of organic matter i have also found using chicken pellets for the first time  this year has also gave us good results