do you think lessons are learnt?

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rowlandwells

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do you think lessons are learnt?
« on: March 30, 2020, 10:19 »
with this world wide pandemic  do you think lessons will be learnt from how we live our lives especially where cooking and eating habits are concerned in that country where it all started from and  be more concerned about hygiene as hygiene is paying an important part in this country for keeping this virus at bay when buying and handling food

and think of how many times we touched shopping trolley's hand rails door handle's then wiped our nose our ate food without washing our hands now we wipe most things we touch with a hygienic spray or wipe

in my  opinion we really need to know more information how this actually started in that country  was it lack of hygiene or eating certain foods this will be most important to stop this virus ever happening again

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Wellington

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 14:34 »
This isn't a food hygiene issue. Or a Chinese one. It's a feature of viruses that they migrate from animal to human populations and back again.  Flu is notable for it, and that (and its fast mutation) is why we can't eradicate it with a vaccine. Viruses migrate from animal populations to human ones all the time. They arise locally, are usually not very lethal or infectious and thus 'only' cause an epidemic and subside again. It could have arisen in a petting zoo in Surrey (an arguably more idiotic practice than an a Chinese street market, from a virology perspective!)

It is a luxury of middle class Westerners that we have industrialised agriculture and are far, far removed from our food source, and that our poor have a safety net which (while woefully inadequate) does not force them to catch and sell wild animals to eat or live.  We are even luckier that we have enormous regulatory bodies dedicated (often at much ridicule) to our health and safety.

I don't wish to belittle handwashing, its very important, and few people do it frequently enough or adequately. But this is a respiratory illness. It's mostly spread by droplets as you breathe (enormously spread by coughing and sneezing) which no amount of hand washing, or food hygiene will prevent. Thats why its so infectious, and our western habits of congregating in small, heated, enclosed spaces and then going to different small crowded enclosed, spaces often a very long way away is what's responsible for its rapid and wide spread. That you can be infectious with no symptoms for a long time, and that the virus is not very lethal is most of the rest of it. The reason we have not had a pandemic since 1918 is largely a matter of luck that a virus with the right level of spread and severity has not crossed the barrier in that time.

Interesting, one of the few diseases we have managed to eradicate by vaccination, Smallpox, has been managed precisely because it is not able to cross the species barrier, and thus cannot 'hide' from herd immunity (be it naturally acquired or vaccine acquired) in animals.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 16:35 by mumofstig »

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rowlandwells

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 16:41 »
although your replies seem to make some sort of sense out of all this i have to say I'me not totally convinced from all that your saying and i need to know more how this has started all be it from animals to humans causing a world wide pandemic from that particular place in the world?

although as you say we have managed to eradicate small pox by vaccination and in my younger days TB was still happening and i suspect it was at one stage rife because not far from me there used to be a hospital dedicated to patients with TB that closed some time ago because TB was said to be a thing of the past but as i understand TB is still around i wonder how that started up again ? also we have also had swine fever chicken flue where's all that come from but we seem to get it here in England?

also we pride ourselves in this country to raising animals for human consumption to a high standard more than some  countries i fear we only  buy meat produced in the UK and free range eggs free range chicken not only to support our British farming but its  because to me its the best in the world 

another thing that one could catch from animals was ring worm but i think with the standard of farming today that must be very rare because coming from a farming community i haven't seen that in many years and that was also spread by touching gates fences etc

of cause we now have the opportunity as free agent at last where we source our food from without being told from another party what and where we can buy and for those who intend to supply this country especially food must meet our health standards and its the old cherry you pays you money you takes your choice




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New shoot

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 09:48 »
This is my personal opinion, but I don't think it productive to start blaming.    This virus doesn't listen to anyone, doesn't pick on anyone and doesn't care who you are.  No-one made it, it was a living thing that mutated and found a new host in us.  It is now exacting a huge and terrible cost in lives all around the world.  No-one has found a way to beat it, other than lock downs and social distancing.  Our experts are looking at the experiences and data from other countries to help us keep as safe as we can be.

We are not immune to making serious errors of judgement in the west when it comes to our food production - remember BSE?  If corona virus is finally pinned down as having made the species leap by people eating certain foods, it may well be they have been eaten safely for generations and were consumed with as little thought as we eat chicken or beef.  No-one could have imagined this.

I hope we all learn lessons worldwide from this experience.  Some of those may be really positive in the long run.  People may work from home more and reduce traffic congestion.  People may fly less and reduce their carbon footprint.  The community spirit seen here and overseas may well change life in other ways and reverse the trend for people to be so insular :)



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Growster...

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2020, 11:34 »
I'm still somewhat surprised that a cure hasn't been found, or at least identified.

The corona 'group' has been known of for years, it's even printed on the back of some Dettol bottles, but if we're discussing mutation here, like a decent cocktail, a base is formed from which to bring diversions for taste and flavour, so why hasn't the corona 'base', been used as a starting point, and the 'diversions' identified as 'bolt-ons' to suit new mutations?

While I know that scientists are working flat out to find a cure, I'm reminded of a programme I heard many years ago, when a book had been written by a budding scientist in pharma.

I've never forgotten a chilling statement he made, about when he was being interviewed for a job with a major company...

He was told in no uncertain terms that "In this company we are here to make profits, if people get better, it's not our problem"!

I'm certainly not being cynical especially where we're all in this together. Godspeed to all those working so hard to help.

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Aunt Sally

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2020, 12:13 »
Your base idea is being worked on, Mr G.  But its more difficult and will take a lot more research and clinical trials to consider it safe and effective.  But it will happen.
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mumofstig

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 12:31 »
Can I just say that they are working like crazy to get a cure, even relaxing some of the rules re testing products. A promising treatment already being tested on people (who have agreed, obviously) is a combination of a an existing malaria drug, plus an antibiotic, which seem promising used together. The separate treatments are passed for use, but not for this disease, so still needs this testing/approval before it can be cleared for use worldwide.
In the meantime work is ongoing on completely new drugs which will require longer development/testing.
New tests for antibodies have been designed very quickly, and in production already, so testing should ramp up very quickly now...
Lesley x
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John

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2020, 12:32 »
I think there are a lot of lessons going to be learned from this - I just hope they're the right ones.

As a sci-fi fan I've read a few books set in a world devastated by disaster and plague. This is nothing like as bad as any of those scenarios but it's interesting to see how things are happening in reality. 

One lesson people seem to be still failing to learn is that you can disagree with someone but that doesn't make them a bad person. I'm trying to learn that myself  :ohmy:

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Wellington

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2020, 14:53 »
Viruses are notoriously difficult to cure. We have very few effective treatments, even for well studied viruses, (and profitable ones). Our best hope lies in developing a vaccine, which has been developed, but requires adequate testing. It's an amazing feat of international scientific cooperation, but still likely to be at least a year off, probably a little more (flu vaccines, which are established vaccines, produced with new strains usually take six months. New vaccines are usually around 18-36 months.) Speed is really of the essence here, because if we can develop a vaccine before there is much mutation, we can scotch it now. If we don't, we're potentially looking at outbreaks every year, like flu has. Only more lethal and more infectious.

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Growster...

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Re: do you think lessons are learnt?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 16:16 »
Your base idea is being worked on, Mr G.  But its more difficult and will take a lot more research and clinical trials to consider it safe and effective.  But it will happen.

Of course you're right, Aunt!

I know I'd volunteer for any drug trial at the drop of a hat if they wanted an old bloke, slightly overweight, with an ear half-cocked for a delivery of some plants...

Those gals and guys are stretched to their extremities, and one lesson being learnt is 'patience'!


 

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