How to make an apple tree from a cutting?

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WeavingGryphon

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How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« on: November 06, 2019, 20:06 »
Can anyone tell me how or what to do with an apple tree branch to get it to become a tree?

Can I just stick it in the ground and tell it good things and wait for it to produce roots? Do I need to buy a root stock and try grafting?

A friend of mine has an ancient eating apple tree that produces a huge quantity of huge delicious apples. It gets no care and it's pruning is somewhat lacking in expertise and it is hugely prolific. Honestly the apples go from macintosh size to bigger than my fist with the other hand wrapped around it. The height/width of a drinks tin easily. Their great for eating and cooking so I want to grow my own as their lovely, can anyone help? 8)

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Lardman

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 08:37 »
It's far easier to graft than to attempt to strike a cutting. There are LOTS of videos online about grafting, it's relatively easy - I do some annually.

Buying rootstocks means you will know the eventual size of the tree and how much upkeep it will require. Most of my trees are on M26 or M1106. You can graft onto an existing apple tree or a cheap supermarket tree if you don't want to mess with rootstocks. Cut scions from the source tree from this years growth when dormant keep them in the fridge. When the sap is rising in spring graft onto the stock. I find a cleft the easiest to line up but the whip and tongue the most successful. Just line the green bits up  ;)
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jambop

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 17:23 »
Not suggesting that you actually use this method, because you need a decent sized tree to graft on to, but this method is the one to use. It really looks very simple and the results look good too... unfortunately it is in Italian... although what a lovely language  :lol:

Innesto a foro meccanico - YouTube
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 17:29 by jambop »

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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 14:46 »
Most of my trees are on M26 or M1106. You can graft onto an existing apple tree or a cheap supermarket tree if you don't want to mess with rootstocks. Cut scions from the source tree from this years growth when dormant keep them in the fridge. When the sap is rising in spring graft onto the stock. I find a cleft the easiest to line up but the whip and tongue the most successful. Just line the green bits up  ;)

I was hoping you'd reply  :D.

Parent tree is about the size of a Bramley 15-20 feet tall maybe?

Husband's Discovery with aspiring M26 rootstock has branches coming up from the rootstock. Since their coming up from the soil could we use a spade to shear it off with some roots and turn it into rootstock? It's 40 a tree at the garden centre and the largest thing the local supermarket does is a viola.

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Lardman

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2019, 14:17 »
No problems with grabbing a rootstock sucker from an existing tree I do it regularly, but don't do it with a spade  :ohmy: Before the ground freezes use a hand trowel to dig around the base, you'll need to separate the sucker from the main root of the tree leaving as many of the little roots intact as possible (they look like wool or cotton strands). I use a pair of old secateurs I don't mind digging in soil with.  Try not to damage the main tree roots.  ;)

Alternatively I've bought rootstocks from blackmoor , gb-online and walcots for a couple of quid each.

If you've found a tree that likes your area and you like the apples it's well worth grafting your own.  I have a number of trees which should have done well here but are frankly pants and I wish I hadn't have wasted the time and money on.

I'm forever snipping bits off apple trees (on public land) I see when I'm driving around  :blush:

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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 10:35 »
No problems with grabbing a rootstock sucker from an existing tree I do it regularly, but don't do it with a spade  :ohmy: Before the ground freezes use a hand trowel to dig around the base, you'll need to separate the sucker from the main root of the tree leaving as many of the little roots intact as possible (they look like wool or cotton strands). I use a pair of old secateurs I don't mind digging in soil with.  Try not to damage the main tree roots.  ;)

Alternatively I've bought rootstocks from blackmoor , gb-online and walcots for a couple of quid each.

If you've found a tree that likes your area and you like the apples it's well worth grafting your own.  I have a number of trees which should have done well here but are frankly pants and I wish I hadn't have wasted the time and money on.

I'm forever snipping bits off apple trees (on public land) I see when I'm driving around  :blush:

That is fantastic to know.
Also hiatus has been called on the brute force and ignorance. We'll have to go and have a look at the Husband's Discovery and see how many suckers there are. We pruned a sucker off earlier in the autumn as the rootstock was taking over. If there are other suckers we can cut them off and turn them into grafted trees and trim that stump to make a family tree. The discovery has no pollination partners and doesn't produce apples so it may start fruiting. So you have offered us a solution to it's infertility. We have no idea if this tree is self fertile since there are apple trees of the same age in many of the neighbouring gardens.

Need to watch that video a lot more, thank you for the link jambop.

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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2019, 11:42 »
Erm,

How do I best pick a cutting? If I'm adding a cutting to a tree to make a family tree which branch do I go for?

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Lardman

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 08:59 »
Still a bit on the early side to be doing anything yet...

Have a watch of this Creating a Family apple tree whilst you wait. If you add the scion too early it will dry out before the sap rises and the graft heals.

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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 11:02 »
Still a bit on the early side to be doing anything yet...

Have a watch of this Creating a Family apple tree whilst you wait. If you add the scion too early it will dry out before the sap rises and the graft heals.

ALL HAIL LARDMAN, and his wisdom.

Thank you  :D.

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Lardman

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2019, 14:12 »
Not my wisdom ... other peoples  ;)

Nigel's stuff can be a little dry to watch but he knows his onions. If you're floating around youtube "Stephen Hayes" and "Skillcult" are also worth watching as is "Nazar H. Nasir" for more details on the actual grafting.  There's really no substitute for practising with a sharp knife to get a feel for how the wood cuts.




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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 08:07 »
Not my wisdom ... other peoples  ;)

Nigel's stuff can be a little dry to watch but he knows his onions. If you're floating around youtube "Stephen Hayes" and "Skillcult" are also worth watching as is "Nazar H. Nasir" for more details on the actual grafting.  There's really no substitute for practising with a sharp knife to get a feel for how the wood cuts.

It was very dry, but informative.

Can you recommend a type of tape to use to attach the scions?
I have permission to take what I want as it saves them having to prune so much so would you like me to send you a scion in the post?

Final apple count is about 9 bag for live bags and people had been taking bags away for the month beforehand so we got the dregs. We have no idea what type it is and it's over 100 years old so no one else knows, and I asked a neighbour who was 95, it was established when she moved in. But it was part of an orchard that was taken out in the 70s so it must have been a good type. There are about 4/5 others in neighbouring gardens. Other than you can eat it we all agree it's as nice as what you get in the shops, we've googled types and not come to a conclusion.

Globular-oval fruit, large-a lot are bigger than my fist, red and yellow skin, cream flesh, doesn't grow on a stalk, hangs directly off the branch along the length of the branch. Makes excellent pies, apple butter and jelly.

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Lardman

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2019, 09:33 »
Can you recommend a type of tape to use to attach the scions?

You can use just about anything, all you need to do is provide waterproof support until it heals over. I bought some grafting tape but it's not as good as it should be. I've also used sliced up freezer bags, ptfe plumbing tape and electrical insulating tape as they were available. The easiest was the insulating tape as it doesn't require 3 hands to wrap the graft well as it's sticky, but when it was removed later in the year it tended to pull the bark away  :( (not good).


I have permission to take what I want as it saves them having to prune so much so would you like me to send you a scion in the post?

I've been really good this year and not added any more trees.... and here you are tempting me with one  :ohmy: and one that makes excellent pies too.  :nowink:

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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 13:06 »
You can use just about anything, all you need to do is provide waterproof support until it heals over. I bought some grafting tape but it's not as good as it should be. I've also used sliced up freezer bags, ptfe plumbing tape and electrical insulating tape as they were available. The easiest was the insulating tape as it doesn't require 3 hands to wrap the graft well as it's sticky, but when it was removed later in the year it tended to pull the bark away  :( (not good).


Thank you. :)


I've been really good this year and not added any more trees.... and here you are tempting me with one  :ohmy: and one that makes excellent pies too.  :nowink:

Well we think their lovely pies. But we're used to supermarket apples with white pips so maybe we're being spoiled by actually ripe apples. You don't need as much sugar as recipes ask for as when their cooked down the pulp and jelly is very sweet.

Plenty of time to make a decision.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 13:07 by WeavingGryphon »

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WeavingGryphon

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Re: How to make an apple tree from a cutting?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2020, 15:12 »
Hello,
Well it's that time.
I have just taken the two scions I had and grafted them using your video link Lardman onto the tree in the back garden. I'll probably take a few more scions from the parent tree before the owner gets there and graft them, as well as the two bits off the tree in the back garden to the tree in the allotment. Which needs 2 pollination partners and has none.

I have taken a nick out of my hand, but it's only small.



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