[DHM]

So, in the final push now on the 1st full year on the allotment, and what a year it's been. Some great successes (cabbages, potatoes), some epic failures (courgettes, cucumbers) and some suprise hits (kholrabi, borlotti beans).  We've stuck to the plan, close planting loads of different veg to see what we use and what grows well and what doesnt and now have a much clearer idea what we want to achieve.

In the middle of all this we've managed to buy a new house which has sapped our time hugely and with two young children and full time jobs its been a mission at times but we've persevered and its been well worth it.

Next year, we're going to take a different approach and use half of the growing area instead for fruit bushes and trees and veg wise grow just what we use a lot of with a few treats.

Also, and this is the big one, we're going no-dig as despite several full scale dig overs and regular weeding over the last 18 months, the weeds just keep coming and coming and seem to grow really quickly. One missed weekend and its back to square 1. Ive heard enough about the reduced weeds no dig brings to have to at least give it a go..

We will have 4 11x9ft beds for veg and an 11 x 40ft area for the fruit. Im not doing raised beds but will edge the beds to ground level with buried scaffolding planks to keep the edges neat (grass borders see). I've started harvesting stong cardboard to lay so once this is done how thick do the layers of compost/manure need to be? One of the beds will be carrots/parsnips etc so that will be compost only. How thick for this?

I dont want raised 'pillow' beds so if anyone could also give me an idea of how much the extra height will settle, that would also be grand.

Thanks for reading, looking forward to hearing your advice & tips!

[New shoot]

With the fruit, it depends on what your weeds are.  I've had to move my whole fruit area due to invasions of bindweed and other real nasties from a neighbouring plot that was neglected.  No dig didn't stop them, in fact the bindweed thought the cardboard was just great and ran underneath it loving every second    The next door plot is much better now, but I still dig out bindweed every year 
 
Since then I have re-established the fruit on my other piece of plot and I mulch heavily every winter - a good thumb depth if I can muster the stuff together.  It really does help keep annual weeds down and is a pretty low expense in effort for a lot of fruit    Dandelions seem much easier to dig out as well if you do a patrol every few weeks and don't let them feel at home.

The mulch does settle and eventually disappear into the soil, but you do get the pillow effect for several months.  It doesn't bother me, but you might need raised bed sides if you want it neat. 

[DHM]

New Shoot, we've got the royal flush of weeds here; bindweed, hogweed, nettles, dock, marestail, dandelion, some nightshade thing, thistles, cleavers, ribwort... you name it weve been battling it! Not much couch grass though which helps.

We've got hold of a load of moving boxes which are double walled so hopefully these will help suppress them. We'll see!

[DHM]

When we 1st cleared the plot, the way the bindweed had spread was actually quite impressive. We took up a load of raised beds which were lined with weed control fabric and the roots had woven themselves into the fabric and grown though it. Our neighbour at the back has bindweed and Ivy they dont clear so we're kind of stuck with it really.

[mumofstig]

TBH I don't think no-dig will kill any of your deep rooted weeds, although it will help with the annual ones.
 
You can only do your best by digging up any new shoots as they come through (or carefully applying glyphosate weedkiller if you aren't opposed to them) which will eventually kill the roots.

[New shoot]

If the back of the plot is the hot spot for weed invasion, leave a good paced sized strip along the edge and dig that through frequently.  That is what I had to do with my weedy neighbour.  You lose a bit of growing space, but it is amazing how many strings of bindweed and ivy you can pull out, before they sneak into crops.

I had nettles and brambles invading, as well as the bindweed.  My no-mans-land strip of soil kept them at bay while I dug through and picked them out of my old fruit patch.  I still get the same weeds invading now, but only odd bits.  If your neighbours are persistent weed growers, you have to keep that strip of soil every year. 

If you resign yourself to some digging along that troublesome plot border, converting to mulched fruit beds elsewhere shouldn't be a problem.  I would invest some time in a proper weed through first if it were me, but I think it would be worth it.  Fruit is always no-dig as it is permanent and mulching just makes it more productive, so win-win really 

[DHM]

I have created a pallet wall with plyboard fascias so mostly I only have to pull away the stuff that comes over the top, having a 'buffer strip' sounds like a good idea, as they do spring up around the bottom sometimes.

The lady at the back has a partner with with a serious illness sadly and the plot's her place to take time out, so nobody says anything really. I did offer to clear it for her once but it came to nothing...

[New shoot]

A similar situation to my neighbour.  He was one of the original old boys when I got my plot and was just struggling to keep on top of his weeds as he aged.  He was well into his 80s when he finally gave up, so fair play to him.  His allotment was fantastic when he was in his prime, all neatly laid out with fruit, veg and cutting flowers 

He was a very proud man and refused all help.  He would have been mortified if I had moaned, so I just didn't have the heart to do it.

[DHM]

A similar situation to my neighbour.  He was one of the original old boys when I got my plot and was just struggling to keep on top of his weeds as he aged.  He was well into his 80s when he finally gave up, so fair play to him.  His allotment was fantastic when he was in his prime, all neatly laid out with fruit, veg and cutting flowers 

He was a very proud man and refused all help.  He would have been mortified if I had moaned, so I just didn't have the heart to do it.

Absolutely, sometimes you simply have to live and let live... there are enough rules and regs and once the moaning starts the fun stops. In any case, with all my own weeds, hers are the last I have time to worry aboit!

The reason our plot was such a mess was because our predecessor got older and struggled to keep up. Theres am old lad opposite I help out sometimes but to be honest hes scaled back to a quarter plot now so isnt too swamped.

[Dev]

Interesting thread. I went no dig a couple of years ago and found that it was awkward to start with but has gradually got better. It's certainly not a guarantee that your crops will be magnificent! However, weeding is much easier either hand weeding (which I find strangely therapeutic) or hoeing. I started off following Charles Dowding's website/books which were very helpful. He recommends cardboard topped by a thick layer of compost to kill off weeds in the first year, and this certainly helps, but I find bindweed is still a bit of a nuisance though nothing like it was. If you've already cultivated your plot for one year you may not need the cardboard - although I find marking our the paths with cardboard topped with wood chip keeps things tidy. Since then I just top up with compost/manure each autumn and let the worms do their work. The system is pretty heavy on compost but once the worms get to work your soil will improve - feed the soil not the plant!
I have to confess I still find it hard to use no dig with potatoes - unless you like lots of "volunteers". Good luck to your efforts.

[DHM]

The woodchip topped cardboard for paths is a good idea, will do that. This year each 11x9ft bed was heavily planted so the only paths were the ones dividing the beds (1ft slabs) which made access to some things quite difficult. A local tree surgeon dumps wood chips every week on site so there's plenty to go at.

In terms of sourcing enough compost, well that's been one of the reasons weve not done no dig up to now. 4 compost bins worth would barely touch the sides so we'll probably do thick mulching with manure and simply top with our own compost.

Side note on worms, has anyone ever had 'lazy' worms? When we dig over we often see worms tangled up in bunches and kind of 'encased' in the clay but they are completely still until you jiggle them about a bit, when they then seem to wake up. Perhaps theyre bored of not having much to process, and all this cardboard, manure and compost will give them an exciting new challenge!

[Potterer]

Hi. I think the word compost in no dig means both home made and manure. I used mostly well rotted manure for making beds ( on top of thick cardboard that I got from cycle shop). On some beds which I wanted to be really free of weeds ( e.g. asparagus) I also put a layer of bought in compost. It appears to be working well- I definitely have fewer weeds than my neighbours. Bindweed is still there and I try to take it out as soon as I see it, to weaken it hopefully over time

[cc]

glyphosate weedkiller is the bees knees for removing bindweed.  100% success rate.  No doubt it will eventually turn up again. I allowed them to grow up a cane unwound it once it got to about a foot high then put it into a jam jar of glyphosate. Rest lid on top. Wait a couple of days. Job done. I am looking forward to it coming back so I can wipe it out again!

[snowdrops]

If you look at the Charles Dowding website they don’t advocate wood chips uncomposted for paths as it encourages slugs & woodlice that then move on to your crops! As for glyphosate they recommend that with constant trowelling out you can get rid of it as the thick cardboard & heavy well rotted mulch weakens it without the need of chemicals.

[simon hughes]

I got a seriously bad bind weed infestation in our tunnel. I grew through black plastic for peppers chillis this year and that bed now is about 100 times better than the other 2 which are basically are a daily task to pull the bind weed. Leave it a week and it becomes an inch thick carpet. So gonna cover them both with plastic next year and grow like until it's done.

My other no dig bed outside which was also horrific with bind weed had a layer of cardboard and then about 5 inches of manure on top. The bind weed still comes through but is far easier to pull. Previously it was so thick the roots it was totally matted and hard to pull. I imagine its still thriving under the cardboard. It's very impressive stuff. But as long as I can't see it as much I'm happy. I don't let it stress me out eitherway. I'm mostly quite impressed with it's tenacity. If only it tasted nice

And anywhere I don't grow stuff to eat I just use weed killer to keep it under control.