[Rincon]

so I still consider myself new to all this grow your own stuff and could really use some help.

I took on an allotment plot 2 years ago, it was very over grown and full of small conifer plants (previous owner was a landscape gardner and had used the plot for her plants rather than veg).

Last year was our first harvest and it was fun, this year it's all going ok too but I notice that our plants a very small compared to some of the other plots, we don't get lots of produce either, we can't grow rhubarb and our raspberry plants are really tiny, strawberries are so poor, sweet corn is only about 3 ft tall, 2nd year running we have no garlic, however carrots, leeks, squash, French beans and some other bits are all ok

I'm guessing our soil is dead.

So, couple of questions.

What is the right time to feed and what do I feed with?

My composter has compost in that is 2 years old and has been turned, can I put that in the ground? If so when?

I have access to well rotted horse poo, when should i put that in?

Does anyone have experience with sowing green manure?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

[mumofstig]

The compost will be fine to dig in anytime from now, or layer on the top for worms to do the work over winter.
Same thing for horse manure, as much as you can get

The only green manures I've used are Phacelia and mustard, here, they die-back when it gets really cold, so no digging in required.

[m1ckz]

nows the time ...im now digging mine over then ill put lods of muck on top amd cover it with weed suppresant ..come spring ill uncover it to a weed free plot  .i also grow all my cabbage etc through the membrain   which keeps weeds at bay   good luck

[Salmo]

It could be that your soil is acid and needs some lime. Buy a testing kit from any garden centre, the sort with test tubes and powder are better than probes.

If you put your location into your profile and tell us what the soil is like (clay, sandy, stones etc) we may be able to give you better advice.

[mumofstig]

other factors to consider especially as you mention beans and squash which are nitrogen hungry did okay.

Peas and beans make their own nitrogen in nodules on their roots, so do well in most soils - just a thought 

[Rincon]

Wow you are all awesome! Thank you. I'll post some more details a bit later as I'm at work but just wanted to thank you all for your help

[mumofstig]

I'm not up on all the new science, but just know from practical experience that peas and beans grow well where other plants may struggle, so assumed they had help from the nodules we've all been told about.

[Aunt Sally]

Peas and beans make their own nitrogen in nodules on their roots, so do well in most soils - just a thought 

... actually it is the symbiotic relatiobship with rhizobia (nitogen fixing bacteria) that form nodules on roots    I have yet to find nodules on any legumes grown on my plot (even with added lime) so I wouldn't presume it as the norm especially as the soil pH needs to be neutral or slightly raised (soil pH in my area is about 6-6.5) for availability of viable cells and effective symbiosis.

You must be doing it all wrong BabyAnn.  Try some of this next year.  It does work!

http://www.thegardensuperstore.co.uk/acatalog/Pea-and-Bean-Booster-Mr-Fothergill-s-19340.html?gclid=CMLJtayD6McCFQjlwgodqwwFQw

[Rincon]

an annual application of lots of manure /compost will help tremendously to increase and improve soil flora and fauna (bacteria, fungus and earthworms) vital for healthy soil but I'm wondering if there are other factors to consider especially as you mention beans and squash which are nitrogen hungry did okay.  Weather, planting times, soil pH (you mentioned conifers which like low pH), soil type (sandy /clay ? was the soil compacted or loose?  how deep can you put your spade?), watering, plant spacing (as in competition for food and water) and location (is your plot open or shaded/sheltered compared to the others) as well as crop variety are just some things to consider. 

Bear in mind also that your neighbours might have well established plots - your raspberries may be small because they may be newly planted, and also how was your weather - wet, dry, cooler, lack of sunshine on new plants could just be secondary effects.  Did the leaves look pale /yellow?  If not, then maybe you need to look at other nutrients such as potassium?  If soil pH is low, then some plants struggle to take up certain nutrients such as calcium.  Did you apply any fertilizer before growing?  Growmore specifically puts NPK (nitogen, phosphorous and potassium) into the soil, but tends to be short term which is fine for quick growing crops, but those needing longer might be better with a slow release fertilizer such as fish, blood & bone and also consider additional feeding especially if you have had a wet growing season which may have leached nutients out of the soil - a tea made from nettles, comfrey, seaweed or "worm food" can give plants a boost as well as provide some micro nutients which might be lacking. 

I'm surprised you are struggling to grow rhubarb - I find it difficult to kill LOL.  It could be bad luck (sometimes a new crown doesn't grow - perhaps ask a neighbour who has an established plant if you could have a piece when they next split it in late winter) but do prepare the soil well before then and dig deep with lots of manure added to the planting hole.  Keep well watered in dry weather.

Garlic - when did you plant?  If soil is acidic, maybe add some horticultual lime to raise the soil pH (they do best in neutral pH).  Also, they need good drainage and fertile soil in a sunny location (but make sure they are watered during dry weather especially when they bulb up in summer)  Choose an early maturing variety as these seem easier to grow.

Sorry if this post looks off course to the original questions but I just wondered if other things might be the reason for some poor results.  Good luck with your efforts and hope next year is better

I think the soil is fairly light but not sandy, it turns over well and has lots of worms in which pleases the robins and the kids haha

The raspberries look healthy enough, just the plants are about a 1/4 of the size of our nieghbours, the fruit is lovely - just not much of it. Once again I just think it needs feeding and will see what happens, I also think we may have pruned them at the wrong time.

The rhubarb, I have crowns from 2 different plots, theirs is amazing, mine is very poor, someone said I should dig them up and let the frost get to them, then replant in the new year?

I put the garlic in early spring, same time as my onions and shallots, the red onions were really poor but shallots and others all grew really well, but we didn't get a single bulb of garlic.

I enjoy the learning game so don't mind getting it wrong, it's a fun adventure as a family that we are learning as we go.

Going to get some feeding done, pay a bit more attention over the winter and looking forward to another year!

[Nikkithefoot]

Regarding the rhubarb, how long have you had the crowns plated as you say you got 2 different crowns from 2 different plots? Was the ground well manured when you planted them?

If they have only been in your plot say 18 months (you say you have had the plot 2 years) then they will need time to settle and grow. Newly planted rhubarb shouldn't be picked in its first year and only lightly in its second. Rhubarb is a hungry plant hence the need for lots of manure / compost to be dug in prior to planting. If you have harvested from new (to you) plants this year, give them next year off to grow on.

You can mulch the crowns with plenty of well rotted manure as the leaves start to die back. This will be ready for next year. Just be careful not to bury the crown itself too deeply. Personally I mulch close to the crown but leave that bit naked as it were.

[Aunt Sally]

Peas and beans make their own nitrogen in nodules on their roots, so do well in most soils - just a thought 

... actually it is the symbiotic relatiobship with rhizobia (nitogen fixing bacteria) that form nodules on roots    I have yet to find nodules on any legumes grown on my plot (even with added lime) so I wouldn't presume it as the norm especially as the soil pH needs to be neutral or slightly raised (soil pH in my area is about 6-6.5) for availability of viable cells and effective symbiosis.

You must be doing it all wrong BabyAnn.  Try some of this next year.  It does work!

http://www.thegardensuperstore.co.uk/acatalog/Pea-and-Bean-Booster-Mr-Fothergill-s-19340.html?gclid=CMLJtayD6McCFQjlwgodqwwFQw

no - just proves the original point I made in that the soil needs to contain the nitrogen fixing bacteria to produce nodules and not all soil types naturally contain them so it cannot be presumed the reason the OP's good bean harvest was because of that (especially as the hungry squash did okay too)

And that proves my point, BA.  You're doing it wrong as you should add some of this to make up for you soil's deficiency

Excellent article here:

https://www.cotswoldseeds.com/seed-info/legume-root-nodules

[Rincon]

Regarding the rhubarb, how long have you had the crowns plated as you say you got 2 different crowns from 2 different plots? Was the ground well manured when you planted them?

If they have only been in your plot say 18 months (you say you have had the plot 2 years) then they will need time to settle and grow. Newly planted rhubarb shouldn't be picked in its first year and only lightly in its second. Rhubarb is a hungry plant hence the need for lots of manure / compost to be dug in prior to planting. If you have harvested from new (to you) plants this year, give them next year off to grow on.

You can mulch the crowns with plenty of well rotted manure as the leaves start to die back. This will be ready for next year. Just be careful not to bury the crown itself too deeply. Personally I mulch close to the crown but leave that bit naked as it were.

So I think that could be my problem, both crowns only went in last year and we haven't really fed anything.

[snowdrops]

Where have the posts from BabbyAnn gone?

[surbie100]

Hi Rincon,
You're not the only one to struggle with rhubarb. I've had a couple of crowns die on me too. I did dig one up and leave it with some compost on over winter & replant. So far that seems to have worked and it's a really strong plant. But at the same time I bought some replacements (those dried up bits of root you see in garden centres), grew a few from seed and all those have grown well. So from having nothing much I now have 4 strong plants and a Fulton's Strawberry which is v weedy.

@ Snowy - I agree it looks weird. And it's a shame cos they were interesting. Am guessing either BabbyAnn deleted them or Aunt Sally did.

[mumofstig]

Where have the posts from BabbyAnn gone?

It seems that she had deleted them, although they are still present where they've been quoted.......