[Bigrich]

Having seen the pictures of the squash frames here http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=119450.0 I've decided to give it a go myself (subject to me getting the raised beds built in the next few weeks - but that's another story  )

I'm planning on chucking up a fairly bog standard frame using some 2"x2" pressure treated, but I can't get my hands on the types of nice open mesh used for training the squashes up (seen mention of using agricultural fencing with it's nice open 6" x 6" squares).
Looking around I'm thinking of using a mesh with smaller squares, but does anybody know what size I can safely get away with? For example could I get away with using chicken wire as that's dirt cheap to buy?
 I'm guessing that cheap bird netting is too weak to take the weight of squashes though?

Any pointers / pitfalls would be appreciated

[madcat]

Start with the thought that squashes are heavy and bl**dy-minded. 

• To some extent it depends on the variety of squash you grow, so you can get away with a lighter wire for say mini acorn squash or pattypans than you can for Jack o'lanterns!  So what ever netting you go for needs to be strong enough for the weight of the fruit plus a good quantity of foliage.
• Secondly, that foliage catches the wind so the fencing needs to stand up to acting like a sail if we get a blow.  Fine plastic netting would be in the next county
• Finally, the fruit has the most amazing ability to grow through the holes in the netting and get stuck there.  Overnight - I swear it.  One day there is a nice flower just peeping through a square in the netting, and the next the fruit has swollen and the wire is cutting into it, or the stalk or something.     The smaller the hole in the netting, the more damage it will do more often.

 

Hope that helps.

[Bigrich]

Cheers - very useful. I should have said that I'm keeping it simple and just doing butternut squashes this year as it's my first growing season. Might try a couple of other varieties next year, but wanted to try them with a single variety first.

So cheap netting is right out then - no bother as I suspected it'd be a stretch to get away with it 

I'll factor in some bracing for the frame - my plot is relatively sheltered from the prevailing wind, but will make sure it's braced up against the autumnal winds. Plus I might beef up the vertical timbers for the weight

I might give it a whirl with wide-holed chicken wire in that case as it's got the weight-bearing capacity, and I can always snip a wider hole if a fruit looks like it's getting wedged 

[sunshineband]

I grew squashes up  a frame last year, cobbled together out of pieces of a metal arch that had broken, and without any sort of netting. Your wooden structure sounds good Bigrich. You could lean canes against it and cable tie them on, and use them to train the runners up, as they should take the weight of butternuts well.

Ours last year were butternuts, Turk's Turban and Thelma Sanders: Some were around 10-12 inches across and managed to stay up on the frame.

Hope that helps a bit

[Beetroot Queen]

We are going to convert a pergola at home next year as hubby has said no to this year, we are planning on using large wire bars to make a criss cross frame like a huge version of trellis.

[Snoop]

What a fantastic question, Bigrich. I've been pondering on the same issue. Beetroot Queen, your question has given me a spark of inspiration. So if you don't mind me hijacking your thread, Bigrich, I've got some questions to add.

MoS, I know you grow Thelma Saunders and butternut squash. Do you reckon rebar reinforcement mesh (bars 3 mm in diameter) would take the weight? If so, how high would the structure need to go? And would you tie the fruit on to the bars (like tying in toms) or do something else? And, last question, does growing squash like this alter the spacing between plants. I'm guessing not, but as my veg patch this year is much reduced, I'm trying to get the maximum crop out of the smallest space.

I have rather a lot of this mesh lying about after roofing work... I'd love to find a use for it.

[mumofstig]

My squashes are all grown on the ground except for the tromba d'Albenga squash, which I grow up a wigwam of hazel poles, with lots of string tied around it every 6 inches or so, or let it wander onto the bean frames  Tromba is self supporting. It's ok growing on the bean strings and poles, so I think the rebar mesh would be fine - go for it 

Some squashes have tendrils that curl around things and hold themselves up, some don't seem to grow as many tendrils - so I guess if you grow one of those, some tying in would help, especially once the fruits start getting heavy.

[Bigrich]

I think Mumofstig you've answered one of my other questions which was "would a butternut squash climb up a single cane like a runner bean does?" and the answer is no.

I had thought about using canes ever 6 inches or so to create a series of verticals, and then using some more every 6" on the horizontal to create a large mesh-like structure... To do a 6ft wide x 6ft high grid I'd need 26 canes per side, and at 25p a cane that'd be about £12.50 - almost as cheap to buy some expanding trellis from Wilkos .

Actually, thinking about it I could probably take a few 6ft lengths of 6" pressure treated fence board from the nearby timber merchants (£1.30 each) and use the table saw to rip them into 1cm wide lengths (would probably get 13 or 14 per single fence board) to create a grid and just cable tie every 3rd or 4th intersect.... 4 lengths of timber would see me done and a lot cheaper than buying mesh

Cheers folks - this might be the way forward. I shall share photos as I get it built 

[RJR_38]

Before these threads I had never thought about allowing squashes to climb - and I grow a lot of squashes! I think I will stick to my 'rambling all over the place' usual method for this year but I would love to see different frames for some inspiration.

[Lardman]

Grew mine vertically up trellis, posts at 4ft, horizontals at 1ft. If I was building something specifically for squash I think Id knock it off the vertical slightly as I had to add strings to help the tendrils.

If you can't find netting you can always just string some line across horizontally and vertically

Picture here http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=108276

[RJR_38]

How do you support the squash though? They are so heavy I would worry about the plant being able to support them when in the air?

[LotuSeed]

Can you get ahold of chain link fencing? I had some volunteer squash of unknown variety that climbed up and across my chain link fence. They were a smaller variety, but I imagine that acorn or butternut squash wouldn't have any trouble growing there too.

[Beetroot Queen]

Our crown prince had a field day growing along a simple chicken wire fence and they held their fruits up perfectly

[Snoop]

Crumbs, Beetroot Queen. I've never grown Crown Prince (was on my list for this year, but no room for it), but my impression is they're usually a fair weight, certainly more than a butternut.

Thanks for posting the link, Lardman. I've seen the picture before but never watched the video. It's quite inspiring: grown from above at the same level as the top of the pergola. Very pretty. Not doable for many people, but I have some relatively high terrace walls that might work for me. If not this year then next.

I'd be keen to see a photo of your frame, Bigrich. I'm a terrible thief of other people's good ideas. Sorry...

[Bigrich]

I'd be keen to see a photo of your frame, Bigrich. I'm a terrible thief of other people's good ideas. Sorry...

No bother at all... Be at least a week before it's built (and possibly longer) as got to go away this weekend and do non-allotment jobs. But will share pictures once it's up