[Snoop]

I read somewhere that sprouts actually benefit from the root disturbance of being potted on and then planted out. Apparently, it strengthens their roots,but  I'm starting to wonder if that might not be the case.

I have at long last started digging up my plot (too wet nearly all the time plus other occasional interruptions). The cabbages I've dug up that didn't come to much have poorly developed roots. No signs of club root, just a bit thin and not as long as I had in the first year I tried growing them, when the cabbages were really good - huge, dense and very sweet and crunchy (same variety as I'm growing now).

We eat loads of greens over the year, so I'm keen to improve the situation. Apart from the usual of rotating (I have a four-year rotation plan) and letting the soil settle before planting and making sure its firm around them when putting them out, the other thing I was pondering on was growing them from seed in situ rather than starting them off in modules. I have the ground to do so, but tend to start things off in modules, partly out of habit and partly because germination conditions direct in the ground aren't always that great (often very cold and wet or very hot and windy).

Has anyone got any views or other suggestions?

[Kristen]

My understanding was that it was wind rock that upset them.  Something to do with very fine hairs on the roots being damaged?? when the plant rocks, hence firming them in well when planting out.

One advantage of potting-on, to a decent sized pot (say 1L) would be the ability to deep-plant them, which should reduce wind rock too.

I suspect if that was all it was the age-old advice would be to stake them, rather than to plant them firmly with a boot-heel!!, so perhaps the issue is something different?

[moose]

I've read that brassicas (except swede and other root types)  don't mind root disturbance when young, in fact my grandfather said they were so tough you could stamp on them with your rugby boots and they would thank you. The secret seems to be as Kristen has said is deep planting and firming in.

[Kristen]

You've reminded me that, when I were a young'un, we used to buy Brassica plants wrapped up in newspaper in the market (similarly for Wallflower plants in autumn).  In those days raising them in a seed bed was the norm ... so seems to tie-in with them not minding root disturbance, when young.

So what's with them needing to be really well firmed in when planted?

[Snoop]

I stake sprouts with rebar and plant out cabbages and the like up to the first leaves, firm them in and earth them up as they grow. Mind you, I haven't got any rugby boots, moose. Maybe they should be my next gardening investment!

We get tremendous winds here that go on for weeks, so maybe that's the reason why cabbages don't do so well. Maybe I was just lucky the first year and it wasn't as windy. I was hoping there was some other reason why my cabbages haven't done so well since then. Ah well.

Kristen, the plants I buy in come just like that, wrapped in newspaper and tied with a bit of old fraying raffia. Cheap they are too. I'm often surprised when I see the price of plant seedlings supplied by the online suppliers. One place recommended on another thread was charging four pounds (minus one penny) for ten Kelvedon Wonder plants. DD could make a fortune just selling his plants at that rate. Anyway, that's off topic.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Kristen]

We get tremendous winds here that go on for weeks, so maybe that's the reason why cabbages don't do so well. Maybe I was just lucky the first year and it wasn't as windy.

Could you try a windbreak around them for a year? If you get mega Cabbages you could then construct a more permanent barrier.  Some scaffolders debris netting would probably be sufficient, as a temporary solution

I had to buy some Leek plants a couple of years ago (Mrs K under clear instructions to throw some unwanted onion seedlings, in modules, onto the compost heap threw out my Leek seedlings which were in a Polystyrene fish box (clearly no different to "modules" ... anyways, I was surprised how expensive they were - off eBay, plenty of sellers to chose from, all around about the same price point.  Might be an option for some pin-money with any left over seeds / seedlings ...

[pigguns]

I read somewhere about deliberatly lifting them and planting them back to encourage strong roots- I'll see if I can dig it out.
I have a slug problem so I think it's not worth in situ.  Trying jiffy 7's this year for ease- they fit exactly into a meatball tray from waitrose.

[Snoop]

Thanks for the advice, Kristen. I'm trying to grow a natural windbreak in the form of hazelnut trees, but they're not doing that well, probably stunted by the wind! Mr Snoop built me two greenhouses, the second one far sturdier than the first, but they both got blown down by wind. A personmade windbreak isn't likely to survive and might even do more damage as it went flying off.

Pigguns, I hear your complaint. It's a good point about losing them early on. Last year we had a plague of snails. I couldn't keep up with them and even the chickens couldn't be bothered with them after a bit. Your info about lifting them and replanting them tallies with what I read about sprouts. Maybe I should start them off in small modules and then just keep potting them on repeatedly. Very different to my idea of starting them off in situ.

[Goosegirl]

I too have read about root disturbance being benificial. Also, I live in a rather windy area and wang in hedging stakes for sprouts before planting them out. I bury them right up to the first leaf and really firm the soil around the stem. As they grow, I keep tying the stems to the stakes.

[Salmo]

You've reminded me that, when I were a young'un, we used to buy Brassica plants wrapped up in newspaper in the market (similarly for Wallflower plants in autumn).  In those days raising them in a seed bed was the norm ... so seems to tie-in with them not minding root disturbance, when young.

So what's with them needing to be really well firmed in when planted?

My father used to grow all his brassicas in a nursery bed. He never dug them out, just gave them a yank. This of course broke off the tap root which made the plants form a bushy root system. Often seemed to be almost no roots on the transplants and no soil. Perhaps we treat them too well?

I grow mine in modules, mainly because flea beetle destroys any small, and sometimes quite big, brassicas on my plot. Father also had this problem but derris and DDT soon sorted them out.

[azubah]

I have often wondered about how firm they should be when planted. My soil is clay and would be very airless and like concrete if I firmed them in too much.

[Snoop]

I have often wondered about how firm they should be when planted. My soil is clay and would be very airless and like concrete if I firmed them in too much.

azubah, I have wondered about exactly the same thing. My soil forms a dreadful crust if not kept constantly moist (impossible in a hot, windy climate) and can get quite compact. I can hoe the surface, but it doesn't make much difference lower down. I should add that the locals have warned me against trying to grow brassicas and alliums through weed membrane as the soil will get too hot. Covering it with hay wouldn't work here, as the wind would blow it away.

Interesting to hear about your father's approach, Salmo.

Right, this is what I'm going to do:

Sow some in situ and some in modules. Of the ones in modules, I'm going to put some straight in the ground and the others, I'll wash the soil off the roots for some serious disturbance and then try and spread them out a bit, as if planting a tree. The sprouts and PSB will get staked, for sure. I'll firm in my other brassicas, but not as much as usual. If I come to any clear conclusions, I'll let you know. It could just be, though, that the results will not be really comparable due to contingencies like weather, work and so on. Anyway, at least I'll feel like I'm doing something about it rather than just twiddling my thumbs and complaining about my rubbish cabbages!

Any further advice or comments are always welcome.

[Goosegirl]

I have often wondered about how firm they should be when planted. My soil is clay and would be very airless and like concrete if I firmed them in too much.

Mine is alluvial silt so is similar to clay. I grow in raised beds for that reason but the soil still can get hard when it dries out, but even so my brassicas seem to do ok. Azuba - to prevent the straw blowing away, you could place some sort of netting on top of the soil after planting?

[Kristen]

I have avoiding cultivating soil, after previous crop, for brassicas - thinking that will provide the firmest possible soil (so just top dressed with Manure and Compost in Autumn). Not sure it made any difference.

I have read that they should be firmed in with the heel of the boot, and that the fact that the rest of the bed is" fluffy" is fine.  Not tried that.

It occurs to me that Wallflower transplants were also sold in Newspaper. They are a Brassica too I think? (No idea if any connection! just chucking it out there in case relevant )

[pigguns]

  Bob Flowerdew, Gormet Gardener... 'ere u go, pull em up and stick them back in again.