[habanerohead]

Hi All,

My allotment partner bought some horse muck earlier this year. I'd have preferred to give it a miss since the Aminopyralid scandal, but we've got it and it would be silly not to use it if it's OK.

It wasn't very well rotted so it's been sitting in a big pile maturing. It seems quite a nice texture now, and it's that time of year when, if we're going to use it, we ought to get cracking but I'm still a bit paranoid about using it.
We should, of course, have tried some seedlings in it, but somehow there always seemed to be more pressing things to do.

The heap has a very healthy looking population of earthworms. Does this mean it's safe?

There were several bits that didn't make it to the big heap, and these have sprouted weeds of various sorts. Apparently Aminopyralid deals with "noxious and invasive broadleaf species and other problem weeds". I'm not exactly sure what's meant by this. Are there any weeds who's presence would definitely indicate the absence of the chemical?

Are there any other quick ways of telling whether it's safe or not?

Hope someone can help us out with this.
Cheers,
Andy

[gypsy]

I would stash it until next yr and see what results others have who use it this yr.

[Yorkie]

Can't do a link on my phone, but if you look on the main website there are articles on using bean seeds to test this out. The seedlings grow twisted if there's a problem.

[Kristen]

I can't find a suitable link, but I would grow Broad Beans in it - if you sowed an overwintering Broad Bean, like Aquadulce, now (the article I read said to use 15cm pots) if the plants show no signs of distortion etc. you could plant them out in early Spring and get a crop from them and then spread the manure on the plot.

Need to take samples from different parts of the pile, so each 15cm pot from a different part of the pile maybe?

[DD.]

Link:

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=35194.msg421807#msg421807

[Comfr3y]

unless you have reason to think its got the hormone - i wouldnt worry about it.

[DD.]

And what would you do if you found it was contaminated after you'd spread it all over your plot?

[Kristen]

unless you have reason to think its got the hormone - i wouldnt worry about it.

But if it is contaminated the soil will be poisoned and unable to grow anything for two seasons ...

The duty of care for Farmers, and "consumers" of products like Hay, Silage, Manure and Slurry, has been dramatically increased since the original catastrophe, and there seem to me to have been very few incidents reported since, but there is still a risk, in my mind, that [for example] someone with stables gets a contractor in to spray their paddocks with selective herbicide, the contractor uses Aminopyralid and the stables owner is either not properly informed of the side effects, or doesn't realise the significance.

I also wonder about Council Composting schemes and the inclusion of lawn clippings treated with chemicals like Clopyralid (which has much the same consequences as Aminopyralid, and is present in products such as Verdone Extra).  Despite the instructions saying not to include clippings in council composting bins I expect that it happens ...

[Yorkie]

unless you have reason to think its got the hormone - i wouldnt worry about it.

But if it is contaminated the soil will be poisoned and unable to grow anything for two seasons ...

The duty of care for Farmers, and "consumers" of products like Hay, Silage, Manure and Slurry, has been dramatically increased since the original catastrophe, and there seem to me to have been very few incidents reported since, but there is still a risk, in my mind, that [for example] someone with stables gets a contractor in to spray their paddocks with selective herbicide, the contractor uses Aminopyralid and the stables owner is either not properly informed of the side effects, or doesn't realise the significance.

I also wonder about Council Composting schemes and the inclusion of lawn clippings treated with chemicals like Clopyralid (which has much the same consequences as Aminopyralid, and is present in products such as Verdone Extra).  Despite the instructions saying not to include clippings in council composting bins I expect that it happens ...

Just to clarify a couple of elements in your post:

Not all plants are affected by the hormone so the ground wouldn't be completely out of action, and the lawn clippings point is a valid one.

[Kristen]

Not all plants are affected by the hormone so the ground wouldn't be completely out of action

Yes, food point, thanks.  Mate of mine spread some bags of rotted manure (from the garden centre, and marked "Organic" for what that was worth) that were contaminated [several years ago, when this thing first broke out].  Played merry hell with his vegetable growing for a couple of years but there were some crops that he could grow.

the lawn clippings point is a valid one.

Is there any conclusive evidence of this that you know of?  I have only treated is as "a worry" and avoided buying council compost for that reason - but it is relatively cheap, and probably very good as a soil conditioner, and I'd like to use it for those reasons!  Dunno about Club Root and a range of other worries too

[JayG]

An extremely lengthy and detailed article HERE about both aminopyralid and clopyralid in compost and manures (44 page PDF and not exactly light bedtime reading!  )

Commercial composting does appear to be better regulated in the UK than elsewhere, so you would probably be very unlucky indeed to cop for a batch contaminated with clopyralid, the likely source of which would be clippings from grass treated with herbicides like Verdone Extra.

One can only hope that the regulations are also sufficiently well observed to prevent aminopyralid contaminating commercially bought manures - locally sourced manures are a different matter and unless you have been reassured it isn't contaminated it's probably safest to do a test-growing with susceptible plants first (peas, beans, sunflowers or red clover.)

[Yorkie]

I have a random memory of someone saying that if the council calls it compost it's been tested, and if they call it soil conditioner it hasn't been tested.

My memory could easily be at fault; thanks to JayG for that article 

[beesrus]

For the record, "gardening products", such as manure, can be labeled as organic when they may well have nasty chemical residues in them. That's the state our Westminster and European parliaments have left us in with their insistence on bowing at every opportunity to the corporate lobby and their chemical addiction.
That we cannot trust bulk standard animal manure is like some sort of horror movie to me... it's been one of the base constituents of good healthy growing since time began. It feels we are regressing from the early days of organic growing, where corporations are on the offensive, and no individual will be able to trust anything that eminates from these big companies. Does this website forum of layman allotmenteers have a policy on this subject ? Has it ever considered lobbying one way or the other ?
  Just asking. 
As for amino pyralids, I wouldn't buy any processed and packaged animal manure these days. Only local trusted sources. If one is unfortunate enough to get this stuff, rain, Winter, and digging over continually can help break down the nasties a lot quicker.

[DD.]

Does this website forum of layman allotmenteers have a policy on this subject ? Has it ever considered lobbying one way or the other ?
  Just asking. 

"We" as a forum do not have a corporate opinion.

"We" as individuals have many and respect the right of others to express them without continual soap-boxing that can often be viewed as being antagonistic towards those with a different opinion.

[beesrus]

DD, I'm not referring to growing methods, and wouldn't dream of doing so, each to their own. I'm just referring specifically to the the lurking amino pyralid question in manure. How can anyone on here have a different opinion about that ? Surely, we are all agreed 100% that such residues in manure are not a good thing for our growing. Where can there be a disagreement about that on this forum ?