[Growster...]

Our plot neighbour has organised some well-rotted manure for delivery in the next day or so. We are sharing it, but it will be dumped on his plot, thankfully - and at the top of the slope, which makes it so easy to fling around!

So we'll be shoving this around by the barrow load, but the compost heap will probably be given a miss next year, and I wonder whether the old heap really is worth its weight, except for being a place to chuck everything which will rot down! We have a dedicated spot on the allotments, where we can unload all the nasty stuff, like perennial weeds etc.

I remember the old wartime gardening book, and the fact that a compost heap was a great substitute for good manure, but next year we'll struggle to use all the year-old compost, so we may well add to it, and let it mature for another twelve months...

Might be quite good by then!

[azubah]

I don't dig my compost heap out very often. It is the size of my shed now. You need somewhere to put all the redundant vegetation. I might do it in the next year or two.

[grinling]

you could use it for beans in the trench
I've found brassicas don't rot down and never put onion bits on a compost.

[Growster...]

I don't dig my compost heap out very often. It is the size of my shed now. You need somewhere to put all the redundant vegetation. I might do it in the next year or two.

Quite like our intentions, Azubah! What is it going to do for our beds, if we have something better?

Next year sounds like a good idea..;0)

[Growster...]

you could use it for beans in the trench
I've found brassicas don't rot down and never put onion bits on a compost.

Now that may well work, Grinners! Although I just said we may leave it all, to nature, a bean trench is actually a great idea...

(We don't have any brassicas except swede, or onions, but I know what you mean)!

Hmmm...

[Headgardener22]

I thought manure and compost had different uses. Manure fertilised and compost improved the soil structure. If ones compost heap is just a pile of dug up bits then its hard to use (and I admit that my heaps at the allotment are like this) but my heaps at home where woody stuff gets shredded are easy to use and spread around the veg and flower beds.

[beesrus]

I think the perfect use of a compost pile is to pull out any remaining woody bits, and then just spread and flatten the rest out to make a couple of large raised beds. Then I move on to a new pile. That works best for me.

There is one other viable/sustainable alternative to the animal manure/compost thing that comes in bulk, and that's seaweed. I legally collect up 5 or 6 bags off a local beach this time of year, and that sits and rots down on a couple of beds all Winter.

[sunshineband]

Glad to hear your seaweed collection is legal beesrus ... it saves a whole lot of enquiries about whether you were allowed or not    and yes, it is a great addition when available.

Growster, we have three compost 'containers' - two daleks and a pallet bin - and so mainly once they are truly full and left to rot down in peace and quiet, they are emptied about every 18m, with any uncomposted bits forming the base for the next time.

There is always one ready to go at potato planting time, and the contents go in the trenches with the seed potatoes, and then, as you said, there is the bean trench/ pea beds.

If you have a lot of rotted manure, then the potatoes will love you for ever and you can save your compost for another day --- it won't go off, after all 

[3759allen]

as far as i was lead to believe compost is more for soil conditioning and manure for goodness.

personally i use compost and leaf mulch for my tomatoes, cucs, peppers, etc. and manure for most of the other beds, not so much with root vegetables though.

i've gone over to rabbit bedding manure this year, it's easier for me to get and i find it rots down quicker.

a lot of people do say to limit the amount of manure you add. i'm planning to slow down on my manure after next season as the soil should now have a maintainable amount of organic material in it.

[JayG]

Rotted manure and compost can both vary greatly in their nutrient content depending on the ingredients and the composting technique used.

In general though, rabbit manure tops the table for nitrogen, with poultry manure some way behind - the other animal manures contain about the same (lower) level of nutrients you would expect from the average home-made compost, and that goes for P and K as well as N.

All are great soil conditioners though - just don't use fresh manure just before sowing or setting young plants out - 9 times out of 10 the manure will be too 'hot' and will burn the roots.

[Headgardener22]

- the other animal manures contain about the same (lower) level of nutrients you would expect from the average home-made compost, and that goes for P and K as well as N.

Well, you live and learn. I had always assumed that well rotted manure had a higher Nitrogen content than home made compost and always added blood fish & bone to compost when I used it.

[JayG]

The NPK values of manures and compost is a fairly crude measure really, and is only a part of the equation when it comes to soil chemistry and biology - your soil type, the weather, when you apply it, and what you intend to grow are also factors - there is nothing wrong with supplementing any soil improver with additional nutrients if you deem it beneficial, although overall the soil ecosystem is easily thrown out of balance so it's best not to try too many drastic 'improvements' at once.

[3759allen]

- the other animal manures contain about the same (lower) level of nutrients you would expect from the average home-made compost, and that goes for P and K as well as N.

Well, you live and learn. I had always assumed that well rotted manure had a higher Nitrogen content than home made compost and always added blood fish & bone to compost when I used it.

agree'd. i assumed horse manure held plenty of nutrients compared to compost. i guess not a lot home rotted manure or compost is actually measured for whats in them. i guess that manure has held a good reputation from many decades ago.

[Growster...]

This topic always gets the ideas flowing - thank you! It's good for this time of year, when the inevitable plans for next year are beginning to take shape, even though all the beds and rows are still full!

Our basic need is to make sure we continue a roughly defined crop rotation, which will now have to be even more refined now we have only one full allotment, so the roots will need to go where we manured this year etc etc.

We're giving up most brassicas, as they're a bind, and I can't tell the difference between a shop-bought brussel sprout, or a home-grown one, and also, I don't really like them that much, although Mrs Growster does...

But we took a gamble on a late sowing of carrots this year, and they're the very best we've ever managed to produce, and they were in just ordinary dug soil, so next year will be very interesting!

[Christine]

I always find that the compost heap acts as an extra bed - I grow marrows and courgettes on it. They can trail there to their hearts' content. Still need regular feeding but it's extra space for crops close to an old hedge where roots would otherwise stop the soil being used.