[greenhead]

Hi All,

My new Raspberry canes (Joan J) planted in February this year have not grown very well and growth is generally stunted.  They are planted into well dug/manures ground which is clayish soil.  I have measured the PH value at several locations in the bed - the value is 6.5 which I think is a little high for Raspberries so I am told (should be around 5?).

What is the best way to lower the PH value?

Mike.

[snow white]

If you only put them in this year perhaps you are a little impatient!  First year growth is slow.  I am assuming they had plenty of compost in Feb, then a mulch in Spring along with a general feed?  Cut them down in early Feb, and mulch with compost and a slow release feed such as BBC.   Then watch them take over your space allocated for them and any neighbouring beds.

[beesrus]

I would echo Snow White's comments. First year fruits after planting are often just getting up to speed and a bit below par.
Normally, adding manure as you have done would have acidified your bed, but I'm not so sure with clay soils as they can react differently. However, I have a neutral loam soil of 6.5 to 7 and my raspberries are fine, in fact superb this year. Just had my first couple and they are great.  Like blackberries, it's been a brilliant year for raspberries with early rain, then sun and now rain again. Sounds like you may not have benefited from the early rains and your new plants have taken a while to settle in.

Here is a good wiki link on acidifying soil should you wish to, mentioning the particular difficulties there can be with clay soils,  but I wouldn't think that is your raspberry issue.
http://www.wikihow.com/Acidify-Soil

Here's a pic from yesterday and as you can see they are dripping with fruit on a ph of roughly 7, almost as big as loganberries. These aren't a new bed but a migrated bed 12 to18 months ago. It was also top dressed with a good manure as well, but had all of last Winter to settle in. Sorry about the size of the pic.

[greenhead]

Thanks snow white and beesrus,

The previous crop was Autumn Bliss and the first year they were like yours beesrus, then the crop went down hill.  After 3 years they were that poor I grubbed them out and planted Joan J. which have never taken off.  All my other soft fruit have done well this year.  Some of the Joan J canes grew a little then died back.  On another part of the plot I planted a different variety and out of 5 canes only one survived!!

I guess my problem must be soil based.

Mike.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

It does sound like soil conditions. I planted 10 Joan J and 10 Polka in Jan/Feb this year...they started to grow but then completely died off in one bed. All the others in the other beds have continued to grow. I can only think the 'problem' bed was just too wet and soggy and with all the rain we had at the beginning of the year, it just killed them off.

[moose]

My JJ and polka produce huge crops on my clay soil which has a Ph of 7 or slightly over. They have been there for 7or 8 years and never failed. I have never done anything apart from put manure on in early spring. They are however beginning to die back now which is earlier than usual which I put down to weather rather than soil conditions.

[snow white]

My soil is clay with lots of added manure and compost.  The first year I lost a couple of canes but they are fine now.  Does the soil get water logged when it rains?  It might be worth sending the soil to be checked.  It could be something lacking or something like copper poisoning soil.  Will be interested in the results.

[Kristen]

I have heavy clay and alkaline soil, and my Raspberries are fine and have cropped for years (not to say they wouldn't perform better on a slightly acid soil, but they don't show chlorosis yellowing of the leaves, which would be the typical sign of Iron starvation due to the pH being too alkaline, so I don't think that that alone would be an issue.

[JayG]

Aside from the fact that raspberries will not perform at their best in their first year, your mixed experiences in general does suggest a soil problem.

Stunted growth can be caused by viruses too, but the chances of every plant in different locations suffering from it seem pretty remote to me. Contamination seems unlikely for the same reason, especially as your other fruits have done well.

Waterlogging seems the most likely possibility - your good year with Autumn Bliss may have been drier than average.........?

[Kristen]

Stunted growth can be caused by viruses too, but the chances of every plant in different locations suffering from it seem pretty remote to me.

I wonder if the plants arrived infected?  Unlikely if they came from a reputable source ...

[greenhead]

Thank you for your comments,  The growth is either stunted or completely died back in both locations.  The soil is the same - clay.  In heavy prolonged rain the beds can take on a surrounding mote.  If drainage is the problem what can be done to improve things.  My allotment plot is the last one in a line gently sloping Eastward.  If grit is the answer how much and how deep?

Other soft fruits near-by are blackcurrants, gooseberries, redcurrants, and rhubarb - all are growing well.  I will post a picture on Friday (away till then).  Canes obtained from T and M (Joan J) the other canes from a local garden centre.  Looked healthy when planted. The same manure source - are raspberries more sensitive than other soft fruits?

Mike.

[MalcW]

Last year at around now I was given a number of autumn fruiting raspberries from another plot, which I planted and had weed suppressant matting and bark put around them. This worked well, with a decent crop and little maintenance required.

Time for another novice question: Once they're cut back, should I remove the bark and matting and put down manure, or would it be possible to use some form of liquid fertiliser, or perhaps a granular one that will get washed through to the soil below?

Thanks.

[Kristen]

Once they're cut back, should I remove the bark and matting and put down manure, or would it be possible to use some form of liquid fertiliser, or perhaps a granular one that will get washed through to the soil below?

They are two separate things, I think.  Manure will "feed the soil" which will then benefit the crop.

Fertiliser will just feed the plant ...

Long term feeding the soil will make a difference (I suspect a significant difference), but farmers just chuck fertiliser on, year after year, so its a valid approach.

Managing the weeds in a Raspberry bed can become a major hurdle, so the weed membrane would be an import consideration to me. Having said that I don't have weed membrane on my Raspberry row, and put up with several nightmare mammoth weeding sessions each year ... but I am then able to mulch heavily with manure annually

[Nobbie]

In heavy prolonged rain the beds can take on a surrounding mote.  If drainage is the problem what can be done to improve things?

My new allotment was very boggy compacted clay at the bottom with horsetail rampant. I decided to plant a permanent fruit bed there. I got it sprayed to knock back the horsetail and then dug it over and spread lots of fallen leaves from a carpark after they had been mashed up a bit and left them over winter. I then constructed raised beds with sunken paths filled with woodchippings and added some sharp sand to the beds. The summer raspberries were planted this spring after some well rotted manure was dug in and most have established well with only about 3 failures out of twenty. Might be worth digging them up and replanting over winter?

[Headgardener22]

Thanks snow white and beesrus,

The previous crop was Autumn Bliss and the first year they were like yours beesrus, then the crop went down hill.  After 3 years they were that poor I grubbed them out and planted Joan J. which have never taken off.  All my other soft fruit have done well this year.  Some of the Joan J canes grew a little then died back.  On another part of the plot I planted a different variety and out of 5 canes only one survived!!

I guess my problem must be soil based.

Mike.

Raspberries can suffer from replant disease https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=572. So advice is usually not to plants raspberries in the same place again as you sound to have done.