[wolfpup]

I have been fermenting my girls feed for the last 6 weeks and not only do they absolutely love it - their eggs have gone from yellow to deep orange in colour.  I had been doing a lot of reading on other sites about the benefits of fermented feeding  - some of which are:

1. Cost - after feeding fermented feed – a lessening of feed costs of between 1/3 – ½ were reported – the hens actually ate much less of the feed. Fermenting feed also reduced the amount of wastage by hens flicking food around (and therefore feeding lots of little furry rodents as well).

2. Improved ability to digest the nutrients of the feed - therefore gaining more nutrition from less feed

3. Improved shell quality and strength after about a month on FF.

4. Greatly increased immune system function – “The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter” This quote is taken from a scientific study :- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19373724/

5. Improved ‘poos’ no more squirty sloppy messes – nice solid and white topped (urine) poos.

6. Vastly reduced ‘poo’ smell in the coop and run - resulting in less flies in the run

7. Much deeper coloured yolks – and larger yolks after about a month of feeding FF (fermented feed).

I decided to try it out and see if the reported benefits were in fact true  -  and have found that they are.   I belong to another large forum in the UK and have done a rather rambling very long couple of posts detailing what I did/why/what I found/my conclusions  -  but the short cut is that I am totally convinced about it but wanted to see if there are any other people currently fermenting their feed - or if anyone is interested in trying it out.

[wolfpup]

I have been asked to give a little more detail of fermenting feed so am going to copy and paste my original post on the experiment I did on fermented feed.   WARNING  it is a very long post.

If anyone actually stays awake long enough to get to the end and wants more detailed info on exactly what I am doing I will happily answer any questions.

CAVEATS:

1. I am NO ‘expert’ and certainly NOT a scientist - just trying to learn from them and passing on what I believe I have proved for myself.
2. I am not trying to tell ANYONE they are ‘doing it wrong’ – or that I am ‘doing it right’. This post is purely to inform you of my findings from an experiment.

Some of the scientific studies, forums, blogs and excerpts I have read before starting this and some of the quotes and statements you will see later on come from these:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19373724/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...373724/related
http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/82/4/603.abstract
http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medli...e_of_broilers_
http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspo...nted-feed.html
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/64...for-meat-birds
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/72...ad-ots-welcome
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/70...their-progress

Just copy and paste them in your browser if the links do not work

Background

I was thinking (I do that occasionally) about my hens one day – after having to take one to the vet to sort out a problem - but got to thinking about what would happen after any sort of SHTF situation. No vets.

This got me onto thinking about the way my parents and grandparents brought up their chickens i.e. never worming them, never having an egg-bound hen, never having fleas or mites, never had a feather plucking hen etc.

I started to think of the differences between the way I feed and keep mine and how theirs were kept and immediately found lots of differences - and so I started researching - LOTS of researching. One such foray took me to a 4 year old thread on an American Chicken keeping site - and after reading over 2,500 posts on one thread(not finished yet) – which lead me to search the ‘official research studies’, and around 1,000 on another thread (still not finished) I decided I had to try some of their methods – to find out if it was just ‘hype’ or ‘old wives tales’.

The Reason for the experiment

I read one thread theory – then read the official scientific studies (there are unfortunately not very many) - of the benefits of fermenting the feed for chickens. The original thread was for meat birds but no reason not to use it for layers only.

Benefits spouted on the thread and other sites (and mostly confirmed by scientific studies) In no particular order:

1. Cost - after feeding fermented feed – a lessening of feed costs of between 1/3 – ½ were reported – the hens actually ate much less of the feed. Fermenting feed also reduced the amount of wastage by hens flicking food around (and therefore feeding lots of little furry rodents as well).

2. Improved ability to digest the nutrients of the feed - therefore gaining more nutrition from less feed

3. Improved shell quality and strength after about a month on FF.

4. Greatly increased immune system function – “The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter” This quote is taken from a scientific study :- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19373724/

5. Improved ‘poos’ no more squirty sloppy messes – nice solid and white topped (urine) poos.

6. Vastly reduced ‘poo’ smell in the coop and run

7. Much deeper coloured yolks – and larger yolks after about a month of feeding FF (fermented feed).

“The whole concept behind giving FF is this increased intestinal health that decreases chance of parasite overload, probiotics that increase immune system health and aid in digestion, increased ability to absorb and utilize the proteins and other nutrients in the feed, increased reproductive health resulting in better laying and heavier eggs, prohibits overgrowth of cocci, e.coli,shagella, salmonella bacteria/protozoa in the bowels.” This quote is from Beekissed on the Backyard Chicken forum – I could not have put it better myself.

Somewhere in the articles listed above someone mentions about gaining another 12% protein. FF doesn't ADD 12%, but it can allow up to that much more of the available proteins in the feed to be utilized by the animal. For instance, if you are currently feeding 16% layer mash, your birds may only be getting the benefit of maybe half or three quarters of that protein because a monogastric animal has a hard time absorbing the proteins in some grains (corn is one) and it depends on how much protein in your feeds is derived from those particular grains. Fermenting these grains breaks the proteins down into a more easily digested and utilized nutrient by the chicken, so you may actually be giving them a truer representation of that protein listed on the feed bag.

In just over two weeks I have proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt in my own mind, 5 of the above 7 benefits. The experiment is ongoing – but from the evidence I am already seeing I will now continue with FF.

CONTROL SAMPLE

As this part of the experiment was purely for the eggshell quality, egg weight, yolk colour and size – I took one egg each from two different hens (the eggs are easily differentiated as one hen’s egg is smaller than the other – I only have two currently laying hens). I will then directly compare this egg with an egg (during and after experiment) from that same hen.

THE EXPERIMENT

First off I had to learn about fermenting feed Most of us with chickens use ACV (apple cider vinegar) - but the sort I got for my hens was not the one required for fermenting as it had been pasteurized. Unpasteurized RAW ACV with “the mother” is what is required.

The ‘mother’ is the dark, cloudy substance in the raw ACV formed from naturally occurring pectin and apple residues - it appears as molecules of protein connected in strand-like chains. The presence of the ‘mother’ shows that the best part of the apple has not been destroyed. Vinegars containing the mother contain enzymes and minerals that other vinegars may not contain due to over processing, filtration and overheating.

For those interested: AVC with the mother contains:
Vitamins: A, C, E, P and the B1, 2 and 6 complexes.
Minerals: as iron, manganese, calcium, copper, silicon, chlorine, sulphur, sodium, phosphorus and fluorine
Amino acids and enzymes

AVC with the mother is more expensive – but you only need to buy it once. Shake the bottle and add a couple of ‘glugs’ to your ordinary AC vinegar and leave it in a warm dark place with the top off for a week – you will then see the ‘mother’ growing in your usual AVC. When you are getting ready for a new bottle, just pour the remaining AVC into the new bottle and start the mother growing in that as well.

There is another way of fermenting using LAB (lactic acid bacteria) that you can make at home easily from ingredients in the kitchen - will be detailed later in another but related and MUCH shorter post.

You can ferment your current layers pellets, layers mash or growers crumbles – you don’t have to buy anything else! You can feed it to day old chicks, pullets and laying hens.

I use layers pellets (but will be changing to mash next time I need one), and supplement this with rolled steamed oats, barley and wheat whole grains. These were purchased from a local horse feed supplier - half a bag of each – which cost a total of £13.50 and filled a dustbin sized feed-bin full to the top and will last my girls a year or more. I am only using roughly half pellets and half grains – previously a bag of pellets would last me around 5 weeks and cost £9. I estimate a bag will now last me around 3-4 months (no waste of the pellets now). In addition I sprout mung beans, alfalfa, lentils verdes, & raddish as I have little or no lawn or pasture for my girls.

SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS: Avoid metal containers – the acid will eat into the metal eventually and become toxic to your girls.

1. Get a container (NOT metal). I used a plastic 10 litre kitchen container I had spare.
2. Shake the bottle of ACV with the ‘mother’ and add a couple of ‘glugs’
3. Add warm water about half way and stir to get it all mixed in evenly
4. Add whatever you currently feed your hens to about 2-3” below the water line – the mix will swell up and you need to keep it submerged. Stir well. Aim to have about 1” of water/AVC left at the top when absorbed
5. Cover with a tea-towel or loose lid (not an air tight lid – you need air to get to the mix) and place somewhere warm (mine is in the under-stairs cupboard)
6. Check after a few hours and if necessary add more water.
7. Stir at least twice a day – getting some of the mix to the surface
8. When you start to see bubbling – it is fermenting nicely – usually takes a couple of days depending on the temperature. ALL THE HARD WORK IS NOW DONE.
9. Depending on how dry you want the mix to be when you feed, lift out with a slotted spoon and drain slightly – or put into a strainer to get off excess moisture.
10. Pour the excess drainage back into your container – and add a bit more feed – less than you need for the next feed if you were feeding dry. Always leave about a quarter of the feed in the container – this helps to kick start the next batch.

[wolfpup]

POSSIBLE ‘CONTRA INDICATIONS’

1. Some people reported their girls did not like the new feed to start with – but after a few days ate it willingly.

2. Some people reported some of their hens stopped laying for up to a week whilst they acclimatized to the new feed.

3. One of the studies commented: “Fermented feed seemed to lose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed”. To this I would add that the hens were apparently kept indoors, in a lab setting with nothing else to occupy their minds. Nor do I know that they were in tip-top condition to start with – the experiment only lasted a month I believe. Hens are naturally forest animals – not lab animals – if your family was kept confined in say the lounge for a month and had to eat, drink, use the toilet and sleep there – it would not be long before you started attacking each other would it?

4. It’s too much hassle – takes too much time

What I have seen

1. They have never shown any sort of ‘not wanting’ the FF - I did take away the dry pellets at the start – for the first 4 days, then added a specific amount back in a different feeder – they have eaten VERY little of the dry pellets since I introduced them to FF even though they are free choice (left there all the time in case they get peckish between meals)

2. I never found this - I lost one egg for one day only whilst they were ‘acclimatising’.

3. Some people found that after a couple of days their hens did not eat very much at all – this is completely normal – they appear to ‘over eat’ to start with whilst getting all the new nutrition into their systems – then slow down and only eat what they need – which is far less than the just dry feed. I, nor other people who have tried FF, have noticed either aggression or poor plumage. Quite the contrary – the FF hens are increasing the quality of their plumage, mine are getting shiner and glossier than they were. No-one has found any sort of increased aggressiveness – what has been noticed however is an increased interest in foraging – scratching around for bugs etc. My hens are certainly a lot more active than they were two weeks ago.

4. Yes it takes me more time to feed them now – about 5 minutes a day more because I actually go out and FEED them daily – instead of leaving free choice food and filling it up once every few days. This also gives me the opportunity of really looking at them on a daily basis.

Photographs  (hopefully)



The egg chosen was from the smaller/lighter of the two original eggs - egg weight 62 grams – the smaller of the two eggs from today’s lay weighed in at 64 grams. I have always been pleased with the deep yellow colour of my own eggs – but the difference in the colour between the two eggs from the same hen, before and after being on fermented feed for only 2 weeks is quite remarkable. I believe the deeper coloured yolk is very slightly larger, but from what I have read, the much larger yolks don’t show up for another two weeks – which is why I am keeping one egg back.

MY CONCLUSIONS

Now to take those original 7 reasons for trying it:-

1. Cost - after feeding fermented feed – a lessening of feed costs of between 1/3 – ½ were reported. I have undoubtedly seen a reduction of the amount of food eaten/used – therefore less cost.

2. Improved ability to digest the nutrients of the feed - therefore gaining more from less feed. I must agree to this statement – what other reason could account for the change in colour and reported size increase of the egg yolk?

3. Improved shell quality and strength after about a month on FF. Not yet long enough to really confirm or deny this – both eggshells weighed at 6 grams each. Therefore the extra two grams from today’s egg MUST have come from the egg itself.

4. Greatly increased immune system function – “The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter” I am perfectly happy to take the scientific study’s findings on this. Anything that improves my small flock’s ability to resist illness has got to be a plus.

5. Improved ‘poos’ no more squirty sloppy messes – nice solid and white topped (urine) poos. I can definitely attest to this. Previously my hen’s poos were quite sloppy – many times to the point of diarrhoea – now they are pickup-able

6. Vastly reduced smell in the coop and run. Again I can attest to this – after only 5 days the coop did not smell at all (we do clean it out daily)

7. Much deeper coloured yolks – and larger yolks after about a month of feeding FF (fermented feed). I’ll let the photos speak for themselves on this one although bear in mind the photo is taken at 2 weeks into experiment.
The ONLY difference between what was fed to the hens before and after was the fact I was fermenting the feed (pellets, oats, wheat, and barley) nothing extra was given to them than that they have always had.

If for no other reason than the egg yolk colour / reported size increase, and the reduction in smell in the coop and run, I would continue with fermented feeding my hens. I was amazed at the colour difference – and I know I have to wait at least another 2 weeks before the size difference in the yolks will really start to show. The egg yolk also has a slightly ‘deeper’, fuller flavour I haven’t tasted for many a long year.

Those of you who hatch out your own chicks - think what an advantage those chicks would have with all that extra yolk to use whilst growing inside the egg – and the extra yolk after they hatched (for those who are unaware baby chicks continue to ‘feed’ off the yolk for up to three days after hatching). Also FF and AVC have shown to produce more females than male offspring - used in horse studs, dog breeding - why not chickens?? Quite a few people on the forums attest to far greater numbers of female chicks to male chicks.

I really hope this post has as least piqued the interest of some hen owners on the forum. I am happy to answer any questions as to the fermenting. I had never fermented anything previously and was frankly worried about it. What if it went mouldy? How would I know it is fermenting properly? What is that scum I see on top of the fermented feed? How long can I leave feed in the fermentation liquid? There are LOADS more questions I had at the start – in the end I just thought ‘to h*ll with it’ just try it and see for yourself.

I did get a little concerned with working out the overall protein content of the feed I was giving my hens with the additional wheat/oats/barley having a different protein level to the layers pellets, as do ‘treats’ like mealworms, earthworms etc., you can give too much protein as well as too little. There is a free calculator on the internet the ‘Pearson Square’ https://homesteadapps.com/app/free/f...rsonsquare.php however I could not get on with it (too complicated for me with using more than two ingredients) – so I designed an excel spreadsheet to work this out for me – if anyone would like a copy of this spreadsheet just pm me your email address.

[snowdrops]

Very interesting, I will also be interested to hear what the experienced hen keeper forum members have to say. Thank you for posting.

[Silkychicks]

Very interesting!!

Sounds like fermented cabbage, kim chee etc for humans Lots of probiotics, easy to digest...
Would that work as well?? Cabage have .... (I don't know the english word) stuff that makes the cabage ferment when you add water.

I regulary make kim chee to go with my rice.

Please keep posting on this subject!

How's the smel? Is it very strong: I wouldn't want my whole house to smell sour 

[wolfpup]

I keep my feed in the under-stairs cupboard adjacent to the lounge.   the cupboard is quite small, but I have never been 'knocked out' with the fermentation smell  -  I like it in fact.   It does change in smell  -  usually deepening then a few days later the smell can be almost totally gone (unless you stick your nose in the bucket).   I started it off in the house because it was too cold outside to really get the fermentation going.   Once it warms up here I will take it out to the shed - but more for convenience really as the shed is nearer to where they are fed.

I don't think it matters what type of fermentation you use  - I know people who start theirs off with raw cow's milk  -  although you really don't need anything - just the feed and water, stir and wait, stir and wait  (I was impatient to try it which is why I used the AVC with the 'mother'.   To start the fermentation off it is best to keep the feed totally submerged - but once fermentation is going you can change to a much drier format of fermentation.  There are many many different ways, what works for one person will not necessarily be right for another, some like quite a lot of liquid and then strain it, some like it much drier so they can just scoop and serve.   I am a bit in the middle at the moment, mine is much drier than it was, but I still strain it slightly because my girls tend to not like it too 'sloppy'.

[mohs.ayaz]

Hello there... if u ferment the layers pellets dont they turn like porridge how do u serve them or how do u dry them?

[joyfull]

it sounds like the same sort of effect as silage, a good silage has almost as much energy as growing grass but allows the farmer to get 2 or 3 times the amount of feed from that pasture land. Grass having a high moisture content though doesn't require any moisture adding, just covering well.
The only thing I would be wary of with layer pellets is them going off and getting mouldy. Damp layers can go mouldy very quickly.
Chickens do like layers in the form of a porridge Moys ayaz, mine get layers made into porridge if we have a harsh winter - they eat it warm

[wolfpup]

Hello there... if u ferment the layers pellets dont they turn like porridge how do u serve them or how do u dry them?

Yes they do  - which is why I am changing to layers mash next time.   It really just needs straining and obviously the dryer you make the ferment the better.    I use grains as well as pellets so I don't have a problem with straining it - but I know of lots of people who just use layers mash on its own.

[wolfpup]

it sounds like the same sort of effect as silage, a good silage has almost as much energy as growing grass but allows the farmer to get 2 or 3 times the amount of feed from that pasture land. Grass having a high moisture content though doesn't require any moisture adding, just covering well.
The only thing I would be wary of with layer pellets is them going off and getting mouldy. Damp layers can go mouldy very quickly.
Chickens do like layers in the form of a porridge Moys ayaz, mine get layers made into porridge if we have a harsh winter - they eat it warm

I know quite a few people who use spent brewer's grains in the States - with very good results in order to keep costs down  -  but with only the few girls that I have it is not a problem.     I also used to make a 'porridge' for them out of the pellets in the winter  -  they really appreciated the warm mash   (I also did proper porridge for them - spoiled little girls that they are).   I have on occasion warmed the fermented feed for them if it was particularly cold one morning.

There really is no problem with the pellets going mouldy  -  the fermentation takes care of all that - then when served, its not around long enough to go mouldy  -  they lick the 'plate' clean    I just keep adding to my bucket as needed, so it is feasible that some of the pelleted feed may have been going for a month now

[Silkychicks]

From what age wolfpup do you think I can change to fermented food?

My chicks are 8 days now.

Thank you.

[wolfpup]

From what age wolfpup do you think I can change to fermented food?

My chicks are 8 days now.

Thank you.

The guys on the USA forum start their day old chicks on fermented chick feed starter  - so they are getting all the good probiotics from day one.   

[Snoop]

Hi Wolfpup,

This is a very interesting experiment. Did you try your chickens on ordinary feed and all the additions (grains and sprouted seeds, etc.) and compare the eggs they laid then with ones laid when eating FF and all the additions?

[wolfpup]

Hi Wolfpup,

This is a very interesting experiment. Did you try your chickens on ordinary feed and all the additions (grains and sprouted seeds, etc.) and compare the eggs they laid then with ones laid when eating FF and all the additions?

Hi

That was the whole reason for the experiment.     I had been feeding my hens everything for a month or more before starting to ferment the feed.  The picture in the original post showed a newly laid egg compared with an egg from the same hen prior to fermenting the feed.

This is taken from the Conclusions section in my original post  (No.7)  "The ONLY difference between what was fed to the hens before and after was the fact I was fermenting the feed (pellets, oats, wheat, and barley) nothing extra was given to them than that they have always had.

[joyfull]

my girls all free range and their yolks are just as dark coloured as yours on the fermented feed.