[Totty]

But soil in great condition will give much better results, even if the nutrient values are lower, than say, a heavy, poorly drained area of clay ground with high nutrient levels.

Totty

[crh75]

It is the organic matter that makes the soil hold the water and nutrients ready for the plant when it needs them. 

[Yorkie]

But soil in great condition will give much better results, even if the nutrient values are lower, than say, a heavy, poorly drained area of clay ground with high nutrient levels.

Totty

Absolutely, the lecturer was singing the praises and benefits of adding organic matter to the soil.

[mumofstig]

The onions will grow better in soil that is in better condition

I'm glad I got summat right then 

[Kirpi]

no nutrients in compost?
pulltheotherone!!

[DD.]

No one said no nutrients. Just not as much as many think there is.

[Kirpi]

Thanks DD.

I think I get away with it because of the high volume of compost I put on top of the beds which then become incorporated into the soil by worms. I don't use manure or shop bought nutrients so I have to presume the plants I am growing are getting their nutrients from compost, nettle tea and comfrey liquor.

[goodtogrow]

I'm very relieved that you grow the way you do, kirpi.  I thought I was the only one on here who didn't use chicken pellets or manure....

As you imply, it depends on how much you apply of compost as to whether its fertilizer value is significant.  I don't see my applications as in any way insufficient for my crops' fertilizer needs.  I still get crops too - without nettle and comfrey supplements, so by comparison with me you might be spoiling yours!

Best wishes

Tom

[Kirpi]

I seem to be able to grow a bed of stinging nettles for nutrient tea without anyone complaining about my weeds! Also a large bed especially or Comfrey. Most folks think I'm eccentric but leave me to it.

[JayG]

I've been giving Excel and my poor old brain cells a bit of a work out trying to figure out what the commonly available figures for the NPK analysis of manure mean in the real world - it's complicated by the fact that manure contains something like 70% water whereas NPK values relate to the percentages by weight of the dry product. 

By my calculations a 4" layer of manure potentially supplies about the same amounts of NPK as using Growmore at 3¹/₂ oz. per square yard, which is at the lower end of the usual recommended dosage rate for that.

A 4" layer is quite a lot (around 155lb per square yard ) but as we all seem to agree the soil conditioning benefits are at least as important as the nutrient content, and soils vary greatly in their natural fertility and how well they hold on to nutrients - I have to supplement compost with other fertilisers on my sandy soil or yields are very poor.

Not wishing to be controversial, but I have also found THIS article about the possible losses of some of the nitrogen if the manure is not dug in (see "Manure Handling.")

[nannytroll]

My head is spinning after reading that JG !!!
I follow the usual 4 year rotation, and manure the spud plot , plus runner beans and squashes very heavily each year. Every thing else gets compost and leave mould mulches as available. I mix equine, poultry and goat muck, with wood ash chucked in for good measure. I'm not sure if there would be any advantage to separating the heaps; perhaps too much effort for limited benefits.

[goodtogrow]

Your head is supposed to spin after reading JayG's posts, nannytroll.  It's what JayG does best....

Dear Maker of Spinning Heads, thank you for researching this question and for your calculations and conclusions.  They're not entirely consistent with my own findings.  I apply only a 2" layer, to a third of the plot, each year, and have done so for the last 20, and end up with triffids (sometimes!)....

There's clearly some room for debate here!  As we jockey for supremacy, may the best man, or woman, win!

Best wishes

Tom

[JayG]

Think I'll pass on "jockeying for supremacy" - last time I was on board a horse was rather a long time ago on Hythe promenade, and I was a supremely nervous jockey even though we were only moving at walking pace! 

I was merely trying to add a bit of science and a few facts and figures to the discussion - I'd like to blame Gurgle for my having to find out the answer to a question once it pops into my mind, but the truth is I've always been like it!   

[Kirpi]

The water content of (especially these past two years) manure has been one of the main reasons why I opted not to use it and go in for mass production of plant based compost and the bags of rabbit poo and bedding I get from a local rabbit breeder/kenneler.

I would be interested to see a NPK comparison of homegrown compost versus animal manure by volume. Considering the 70% water component of animal manures, I wouldn't be surprised if vegetable compost was actually higher in nutrients across the board.

edit: also less messy in the car!

[Madame Cholet]

We get free manure delivered by the tractor load and as I have no lawn I have very little stuff to compost few beetroot leaves ect. On the RHS course we were continually reminded of the benifits of bulky organic matter in any shape or form. I'm experimenting with no dig beds so covering the soil with as much as possible.