[Sleepingpopman]

Hi Everyone 
In the past we've grown our runner beans up an 8' tall wigwam with great success but this year we thought we would try the Munti System.
We built it so it is south facing & in full sun for most of the day but the results so far have been disappointing in comparison to past years,    they've produced some flowers but they seem to drop off very quickly & only a few beans are appearing, by now we've usually got loads in the freezer & had quite a few cookings.
We normally have enough frozen to last well past Easter, can't see that happening this year.
Any ideas please. 
Keith/Sharon

[barley]

I think its the weather

mine are a dead loss this year compared to other years and I have grown them no differently to how I always have

[angelavdavis]

I don't think it is a great year for runners this year - mine are way behind last years harvesting and I am battling black fly infestation which isn't helping.  I have had two beans off my 24 plants so far.

Just keep watering them well and feeding them with high potassium (such as comfrey or a tomato based feed) will give them a regular boost. 

Then we hope that things pick up!

For what it is worth, I don't think it is your training method - I am on year two of the Munty Frame method and last year it worked well.

[Bing]

I think it is G8 meeting on earth for Black Flys this year!

but they only meet approx every 40 years or so.

[JayG]

I'm reluctant to criticise the Munty frame as I think it's a great idea but for me it has had a down side - the first year I used it I noticed that the diagonal strings (wires in my case) provided a great perch for the large numbers of sparrows round here, and their favourite game was pecking at the flowers, which usually then dropped off. Sometimes they pecked off the growing tips too if they were really bored!   

This didn't happen to the flowers produced on the vertical parts of the frame because it is much harder for them to perch.

The solution was to suspend black plastic mesh from canes about 6" above and parallel to the diagonal part of the frame - enough to prevent the pesky things landing on there but no danger of trapping them, and the beans are of course picked from underneath anyway. Bit of a faff but it didn't really take long and it works.

Sparrows do seem to spend quite a lot of time foraging through the foliage of other plants though, which is a possible explanation as to why I have so few aphids in my garden this year.

Other than that, it does seem to take bees a while to either find or figure out what to do with runner bean flowers, so early flower drop is common, especially in hot weather, although my White Lady are being visited regularly and are setting well now.

[Growster...]

"Other than that, it does seem to take bees a while to either find or figure out what to do with runner bean flowers, so early flower drop is common, especially in hot weather, although my White Lady are being visited regularly and are setting well now."


Jay, some bees get their beaks into the flowers and some just snuffle round the ourtside base of the flower, without going into the nectar, it appears.

We were instructed by an aged and learned chum as to the consequences of this, one being that the flower drops off and doesn't produce a bean.

The dear old chap told us this several times, sometimes in one day, but I'd like to hear it again, only I can't because he died last year..;0(

[JayG]

I've heard about the short-tongued bees which can't reach the nectar via the "preferred" route so chew their way in through the base of the flower, but I was merely guessing about other bees being unable to work it out Growster!   

(Do bees have good eyesight? Might it be worth hanging up a diagram of the runner bean flower's anatomy with a big pointy arrow for the benefit of the slightly more intellectually challenged bees?  )

[mumofstig]

I'm trying the red and the white versions of the new self-pollinating runner beans this year - bean set seems good  ...................taste test to follow 

The sparrows like pecking both of these as well though 

[Goosegirl]

"Other than that, it does seem to take bees a while to either find or figure out what to do with runner bean flowers, so early flower drop is common, especially in hot weather, although my White Lady are being visited regularly and are setting well now."


Jay, some bees get their beaks into the flowers and some just snuffle round the ourtside base of the flower, without going into the nectar, it appears.

We were instructed by an aged and learned chum as to the consequences of this, one being that the flower drops off and doesn't produce a bean.

The dear old chap told us this several times, sometimes in one day, but I'd like to hear it again, only I can't because he died last year..;0(

Heard about this before somewhere and the short-tongued bees. Can't remember the details though, but think the STB appears eariler in the season and also may be weather-dependant, but don't quote me (well - you can on here).

[Growster...]

And I seem to recall that 'syringing the flowers' during the heat just doesn't do anything for setting either!

This fits in with the notion that just a little water will make hardly any difference, and may well just tell the flowers that they're useless..;0)

Beans always take ages to get going, there will always be a few street-fighters which buck the trend, but forever, we've seen most of the first flowers just wither and drop. Of course, there will then be the leaders of the pack coming along, so the cycle continues..;0)

[Totty]

I think the munty frames look great, but surely it's taking twice as much room as traditional methods, and regardless of the season, less crop?

Totty

[JayG]

A properly designed and orientated Munty frame should quite easily cope with denser planting than you would space a traditional double row with an inverted "V" frame, because the plants don't become congested when they get near the top, and a big advantage over the alternative "beans hang down" "X" frame is that you can grow crops underneath the diagonals too (subject to a paving stone or two so you can get underneath the frame to pick the beans!

Ultimately you're probably right Totty in that it's not the very best way of cramming the maximum number of runner beans into a given space, but the space it takes up doesn't need to be wasted - mine has salad leaves, radish and Florence Fennel underneath at the moment which benefit from a bit of shade even though the high end of the frame does face south.

[salmonking]

got to say,mine have been the best yet! we have picked 6 lots,enough to feed the family everytime!.just about to go and pick more.

[Fairy Plotmother]

  Not many beans on blackfly ridden droopy looking plants!

[Totty]

A properly designed and orientated Munty frame should quite easily cope with denser planting than you would space a traditional double row with an inverted "V" frame, because the plants don't become congested when they get near the top, and a big advantage over the alternative "beans hang down" "X" frame is that you can grow crops underneath the diagonals too (subject to a paving stone or two so you can get underneath the frame to pick the beans!

Ultimately you're probably right Totty in that it's not the very best way of cramming the maximum number of runner beans into a given space, but the space it takes up doesn't need to be wasted - mine has salad leaves, radish and Florence Fennel underneath at the moment which benefit from a bit of shade even though the high end of the frame does face south.

I've been trying the V frame for a couple of years. Plants are close at the bottom, and grow up and outward, therefore they don't get congested, and the hang out wards. As you mentioned, salad leaves grow perfectly underneath, a bit of shade and plenty of water courtesy of the beans and they grow a treat.

Totty