[richardeallen]

Hi everyone.

So I have a new Allotment which I've started out on.
I've a few beds going well with spuds, carotts and a few other things in.
Most people have warned me not to go mad in the first year so with this in mind I'm planning an easier way to clear the remaining Grass and weed covered part of my plot.

I'm planning to cut the grass, cover the lot in newspaper and then loads of compost that was already on the plot. Leave it until next spring. Maybe do some digging in spring once the grass and compost has broken down. Probably plant spuds into it and skip the spring digging!

Has anyone tried this or does anyone have any advice about this?
Will it work? should I add horse manure?

The area also has Bind weed in it it I'll probably just spot spray these *.

Many thanks in advance

[Totty]

When our allotments started, the plot holders next to me decided to go down the no dig approach. What a mess that turned out to be.
The No Dig method was not intended to clear ground, it's meant to keep the soil in perfect condition. I've yet to see any proof that it grows more or better veg. I have seen proof that if you take a piece of weedy grassland, cover it with paper or card, then manure and compost, as soon as those weeds get through they will be rampant.
Try No DIg by all means, but AFTER the ground is cleared.

Totty

[allotmentann]

Take a look at Angeladavies diary for lots of info on no dig gardening. I personally agree that a layer of newspaper will not be enough to stop the weeds. I don't use chemicals and cleared everything by hand. Weed control membrane is your best bet for covering over, you can plant through it, or raised beds filled with a lot more layers, eg cardboard, grass clippings, leaves, compost, newspaper etc, to get a thicker layer to supress the weeds. Welcome, by the way.

[pigguns]

Congrats!
  I did try manure and large cardboard sheets (from Ikea as it's only a few minutes away), but it's not a good solution, and looks very messy. I've got weed membrane on half- Some areas I'm lifting, digging compost into the relevant bit and planting squash/corn/toms back through the membrane.  I may keep doing this as it's so low maintenance  but where the membrane has been the grass come out much easier after only 2 months covered up.
 
I've also got deep layers of damp newspaper and manure covering 50p worth of sale seed spuds- no weeds have come through yet, but I can see potato tops, like you am hoping just to turn it into the soil later in the season- if I get some spuds as well it's happy days.  Try a few different approaches and see what works for your soil/weed situation.

[Kirpi]

It depends on what weeds you have got. If the plot has been worked in the past and they are just grass (not Couch Grass however) and annuals then the No Dig method will work if your newspaper layer and compost are piled on thick enough - about a foot deep all over on a thick layer of newspaper should do it.

However, any perennials including Couch should be weeded out first or they will come through and then feed on the lovely compost you have given them!

[Aunt Sally]

It depends on what weeds you have got. If the plot has been worked in the past and they are just grass (not Couch Grass however) and annuals then the No Dig method will work if your newspaper layer and compost are piled on thick enough - about a foot deep all over on a thick layer of newspaper should do it.

However, any perennials including Couch should be weeded out first or they will come through and then feed on the lovely compost you have given them!

That would take over 50 cubic yards of compost to cover a half plot 

[compostqueen]

Black woven heavy duty sheet mulch is very good for helping you with ground clearance but it has to be fastened down properly and you need to keep off it so you don't compact the ground.  You can leave it down, doing its thing, while you get to work on the next bit of allotment you need to clear.

Don't try and plant in the bit you're clearing with the sheet mulch though! It sounds as if you're confusing two different jobs.  Clearing with sheet mulch works well but it takes a long time so don't expect quick results 

Check out Charles Dowding's No Dig website    He's a farmer who uses no-dig techniques on his salad farming business.  He has written books on the subject which you can lend from the library. 

[Kirpi]

It depends on what weeds you have got. If the plot has been worked in the past and they are just grass (not Couch Grass however) and annuals then the No Dig method will work if your newspaper layer and compost are piled on thick enough - about a foot deep all over on a thick layer of newspaper should do it.

However, any perennials including Couch should be weeded out first or they will come through and then feed on the lovely compost you have given them!

That would take over 50 cubic yards of compost to cover a half plot 

Yes, that's what I make it.

[mumofstig]

I always ask myself what involves the most work?

Digging out weeds or moving a lot of compost/manure ....................IMO there doesn't seem to me to be much difference between the 2. I don't think there is an easy way, unless you use glyphosate.

I choose to dig cos I have upper back problems, so moving a loaded wheelbarrow is difficult - and I would rely on delivered materials as I don't drive.

[moose]

I recently got the Charles Dowding book on "no dig" from the library. According to him you don't need anything like a foot of compost/manure, 3-4 inches is quite enough. The pictures on his website look pretty impressive.

[compostqueen]

I think no-dig conversations, like discussions about fox hunting, are pointless. You either do it or you don't.

Every thread on the subject ends in why-you-should dig, because it would seem that those who dig have louder voices than those who don't.

[Aunt Sally]

You are right.  There is never any agreement - and neither should there be.  As you say, 'you either dig or you don't'.

The reason that the dig voice is bigger is purely that there are more diggers than no-diggers.

[Kirpi]

The reason I "No Dig" is because I suffer Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and working a fork for hours turning soil ends up with dead hands and wrists for days.  But i am quite a strong bloke so I would rather wheel a few barrows of muck and not be in pain.

The reason I said a foot depth was because 1) it is an initial clearance and the poster wanted to ensure weed control, even wood chip is recommended at around 6 inch depth, and also because a foot of compost will very quickly be churned by earthworms into around four inches by the time it has finished cooking and being daged down by worms into the soil underneath.

I don't want to get into an argument - it's your plot, do what you like - but the thread is about "No Dig" and that is my contribution.

[Aunt Sally]

Your contribution is much valued too, Kirpi 

[angelavdavis]

Hi everyone.

So I have a new Allotment which I've started out on.
I've a few beds going well with spuds, carotts and a few other things in.
Most people have warned me not to go mad in the first year so with this in mind I'm planning an easier way to clear the remaining Grass and weed covered part of my plot.

I'm planning to cut the grass, cover the lot in newspaper and then loads of compost that was already on the plot. Leave it until next spring. Maybe do some digging in spring once the grass and compost has broken down. Probably plant spuds into it and skip the spring digging!

Has anyone tried this or does anyone have any advice about this?
Will it work? should I add horse manure?

The area also has Bind weed in it it I'll probably just spot spray these *.

Many thanks in advance

Hi Richard,

As AllomentAnn has mentioned, I have used this process to good effect with raised beds.  Three years on I have eradicated couch grass and practically eradicated bindweed using no dig processes from my first plot.  I spent last year setting up new beds on a newly acquired 2.5 rod plot and have just completed 7 new beds in this way on a new 5 rod plot I took over in mid-April (the other beds were partly dug by previous tenants, so I dug them over and weeded well, but I have now noticed that the couch is slowly returning to these beds).

It is not an easier option to digging.  It is simply an alternative.  As has been mentioned, sourcing and shifting large amounts of composting layers is not an easy job.  I am fortunate that I have found a manure supplier that delivers cheaply, free grass clippings delivered by a local landscaping company, cardboard on freecycle and lots of stinging nettles and comfrey growing around the site that I can use in the layers. 

I personally feel that it is the only method to remove the couch grass issue I suffer with on my plots.  I hate digging and my back isn't keen on it either!  I recommend using cardboard, overlapped by at least 15cm instead of newspaper as the initial layer and you do need to dig out as many perennial weeds as possible.  I also tend to plant on top of my layers of mulch (which I top with compost) immediately, rather than waiting for it to rot down first.  You need to ensure you water and compress each layer well to stop root-unfriendly dry air-pockets developing.  Many recommend setting them up in autumn to overwinter instead though as you have suggested.

Come the end of the harvesting season, I usually find that the bindweed is seriously weakened and easy to remove by hand.  Small, tenacious patches can always be spot treated with glyphosate as you have hinted you have no problem doing this.  I have tended to do this around the edges where the beds meet the paths in spring in the first couple of seasons after developing the plots.  I also don't keep grass paths, but use weed suppressant fabric topped with bark chips.

Contrary to Totty's experience, I have actually found it a very good process for setting up new plots - if you are planning to use raised beds.  It is also excellent for maintaining the plots, although I don't tend to give the beds the full treatment every year, just adding a layer of newspaper and manure/HM compost more to keep down the surface weeds once a year (planting through this for long-standing crops such as brassicas and leeks).

There is a lot of information on no-dig online.  Charles Dowding has been mentioned.  I would recommend you google "lasagne gardening" and look on Youtube where there are lots of videos explaining the technique. 

I have a diary on here that describes how I have used on my plots.  Good luck with it!