[cathy81walking]

Morning all - nice to see no rain down here in Sussex for a change 

Now I could really do with some advice from experienced chicken keepers please - I have a situation which is getting me a bit worried..... 

I have 2 roughly 18 month old Black Rhodes ladies, who moved in with me in February this year.  They are great characters and as most of you know, chickens are addictive    ... So, aided and abetted by my children I talked my husband into getting two more point of lay ladies.

I read lots and have kept them separate for 4 weeks - but the 'big girls' have been able to see the youngsters when they are out of their run for a scratch every day, but they've not been mixed till the last week, when I've put the youngsters in the bigger run for an hour in the evening.  I did this for 3 days, and there was a bit of squawking and pecking from the big girls, which died down a bit after the first 10 mins or so. 

So I bit the bullet and put the youngsters in permanently on Saturday.  But they are still being beaten up - I keep finding them cowering in the corner, with their heads hidden from the older birds and my silver link has blood stains visible on her white feathers around her head.  It also seems that despite having water and food in 2 separate areas in the run, the big girls are keeping the younger ones away from the supplies.

Do I just have to grit my teeth and let them get on with it in the knowledge that it can't go on for ever  or do I remove the pullets (who are now about 20 weeks and I think one may have laid her first egg this morning - a very unfamiliar pale soft shelled egg had been trampled in the bedding this morning) and put them back in their ark?

Any advice you can give would be hugely appreciated and I really don't know what to do!!

[Jeanette]

Get some purple spray (gentian violet) to cover up the wounds and and any red marks because chickens are drawn to anything red and will carry on beating her up. If you can have more feeding and water stations dotted around then the new ones will have more chance of getting the food and water. Also have plenty of places that the new ones can get into, buckets put on its side are excelent for that. the last thing is to be patiet, it is horrible seeing them fight but it has to be done. It can take a couple of weeks but they will  sort it out in the end. Now you have put them together don't part them again unless one is in a bad way because if you do it will start from the begining again.
If you can imagine how you would feel if one day you were doing something and some stranger came into you house and sat on the sofa and said that they were there to stay how would you feel. I imagine it must feel the same for our girls. Be patient it will be ok in the end and you will have happy chooks once more.

[orchardlady]

Is there any way you can keep them separate for a few more weeks yet but free ranging together occasionally? Also keep them as close to each other as possible whilst still keeping them separate. Your young hens are still very young and need time to mature into confident birds. Try to feed treats where everyone can see everyone getting some but the two groups not being able to get to each other.

If the above is not possible try putting buckets (on their sides) and boxes around the run to allow the new girls to get away from the pecking.

[cathy81walking]

Thank you for the replies - like the bucket idea - will put a couple in this afternoon....

I did put a third food/water area in the house this morning before I left for work as the new girls do seem to keep ending up indoors to hide     

I did expect a certain amount of aggro - but the viciousness of the attacks really took me by surprise - and I thought 24-48 hours would have it mostly sorted    Well I was hoping to add 2 more to my flock in the spring, but I'm not sure I can go through this again - far to stressfull 

[joyfull]

the introduction can take a couple of weeks for birds in a run, if your birds are free rangers then it is often over far quicker.

[cathy81walking]

Thanks Joyfull

Their run is within a veggie plot which is fenced off so the dog can't get near them (or eat my raspberries - blooming dog!) and I have been letting the older girls roam and scratch in the veg patch since all the summer veg finished. 

Do you think that if all 4 were let out together for a wander, then it would help with the settling?  I've not wanted to let the youngsters roam just yet as we've only had them for 4 weeks and I wanted to get them really well handled first....

[joyfull]

allowing a greater area will give the newbies chance to get out of the big girls way. The big girls are only trying to let them know that they are the bosses 

[cathy81walking]

fab, thanks

 

[Lindeggs]

I have also read that if you can find something to distract the older hens they may "forget" about the youngsters for a while and leave them alone.  Someone suggested hanging a cauliflower in the run above the hens' head height so they have to leap up to eat pieces of it.  Apparently keeps them occupied for hours!

I don't have my hens yet so haven't tried this, but I can only imagine how distressing it would be to see your little ones getting picked on.  Good luck with the rest of the introduction process.

[cathy81walking]

ooh - like the cauli idea - thanks Lindeggs!  It's market day today, so I'll get one at lunchtime... 

The aggression from the big girls hasn't abated - got even worse last night when I found my silver link with fresh blood on both wings where the others have been pecking her wings and pulling her feathers out. 

Any ideas why the silver link (who is mostly white) is being picked on so much more than the Rhode cross (who is pretty much ginger all over)?

I'm not feeling fond of the big girls right now - they are just so spiteful!!

[TeaPots]

You have to love your big girls...they are pecking the nebies because they are frightenened of losing their home and their food etc. 

Remove the 2 oldies, and put THEM in the seperate arc/coop. Allow the newbies to learn their way around the new run and coop until the wounds have healed.

I would not normally advise this, but once they have blood, especially on white hens, they can remain a target until death.  The oldies should be less territorial once they are used to the temporary pen, and then when reintroduced, should just be glad to be home. The re-introduction, should not be until the white one has no blood or reddened patches, (I recommend at least a week) and should be done in one go...NOT in and out for a few hours. 

Always, when adding new hens to a flock, try to put the newly added ones into the coop approx an hour after the existing girls have settled in for bed. They will have their own favourite 'beds' on the perch, so the new ones take the other spaces. Leave them for a bit of a lie in the next morning before letting them out. Often they are then too hungry to worry about newcomers for a little while.

THEN all the other excellent advice comes into play... lots of hiding places (I use a wooden board leaning up in the corners of the run), a hanging cabbage/cauli, spare feeder and drinker etc.

PS I dont know the reason, but it is well known that white hens get picked on more. Maybe they are just easier for the other hens to see 

PPS.. GET A COCKEREL. Hens are far less likely to bully if they have a cockerel, who will keep them all in line!

[cathy81walking]

Right!  A plan then!

Thanks Teapots - I shall remove the big girls into the ark when I get home from work.  I've left them with the run of the veg plot today so they've got more space to scratch around and hopefully take their minds off the 'pesky newcomers' !  And I'll be better prepared for all the aggro when I reintroduce them....with hiding places and distractions (and a strong mind-set!) etc

I shall be quite relieved to remove the stress from the youngsters - especially as I think that one laid an egg (her first) on monday - nothing since though...

Unfortunately I can't keep a cockerel - there's a 'no crowing birds' thingumy on our deeds and I do have neighbours that would definately poke their noses in   :blink: