[vron]

Hi there, we are having problems with Bumble Bees ruining the flowers on our runner beans.

The problem being, the Bumble Bees are to big to access the flowers the normal way.

They are going in at the back of the flowers instead.

As a result, large amounts of flowers are falling off and no Runner Beans are developing.

This is both at home (White Lady) and at our allotment (Moonlight).

Has anyone else had this problem, normally we would get a crop of aprox 80lbs plus at the lottie.

But with the large loss of flowers we are looking at maybe half the amount or less.

Any advice would be welcome.

[mumofstig]

Nothing much you can do about it

My Firestorm (the red equivalent of Moonlight, a self pollinating bean) has set really well despite the bees' attentions. I would have thought your Moonlight would have been ok as well 

Is wind and dry weather contributing to the loss of beans, rather than all  being (  ) the bees fault?

[Aunt Sally]

I think smaller bees will still be able to visit and pollinate the flowers.  It happened this year to my broad beans, holes in all the flowers but I had a fantastic crop.

[polly nator]

Quite honestly, I'm more worried about the bumblebees. The general bee population is noticeably less this year round where I live. So anything that keeps the bumblebees happy is good with me! Whether the bees are to blame for the problems with your runners or not, at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing the bumblebees will be giving a helping hand with your other veg crops.

[sunshineband]

Round this way bumble bees have seemingly multiplied to fill the space left by the dearth of honey bees, which are few and far between 

As Moonlight is a self pollinating bean, I think you probably have the same issue as many of us with reduced crops of runners -- the weather conditions 

[seaside]

Yes, I've been watching my runner beans suffer as well in exactly that way. Thankfully, no problem with the numbers of bees, there's millions of them, but nearly all the visiting bees are the wrong sort and are cheating, and it is resulting in a bean set of about one in five .. if that ... pretty poor and such a waste of time and effort by all concerned... I'm thinking of renaming bumble bees as Banker bees... as they take what they want and to hell with the rest of the dependent crop community that includes me.
Last Summer I had a fantastic crop, but I stupidly forgot what variety I had used. Fortunately, I had thought, I had saved quite a few seeds from last year as one does, so also put in a row of them as well as newly purchased Polestar runners .. but neither are setting well due to the Banker bee backdoor thing. Now that I have found out last year's runners were in fact the self-fertile Firestorm, I can only assume that this year's self-saved Firestorm aren't self-fertile any more ? I know different runner varieties have always been fairly promiscuous, but one would have hoped the self-fertile Firestorm gene would, just like with French beans, survive somewhat in say 30% of the new generation... but, obviously not.  Why am I not surprised ?

Next year I will try a whole new strategy armed with my experience of this year. I will be buying Firestorm once more as they are indeed delicious, but if the self-fertility thing is not transferable to the new generation under controlled conditions in the way all French beans are, then they'll have to be discarded out of principle.

Is there anyone else who might have some info on this subject ?

[8doubles]

Sparrows are also guilty of nipping off runner bean flowers.
Lots of Bumbles on my beans but no damage.....................so far!

[mumofstig]

Any hybrid will be a mix of the forebears of the original, so anything can happen. That's what happened to your runner beans and how can you be sure that 30% of your saved beans were not capable of self-fertilisation 

Any seed you want to save from non-hybrid, open pollinated plants will need to be grown so that they cannot be pollinated by others in the vicinity, or they will themselves be hybrid.

[JayG]

I believe that Moonlight and Firestorm are both crosses between runner and French beans, so not strictly F1 varieties but the inability to breed true from saved seeds appears to be the same (and that's without the plants themselves crossing with other beans, which they do readily - my "White Lady" from saved seeds aren't all white this year, despite no-one else in the immediate area growing any types of beans as far as I know.)

Buying new seeds seems to be the only way of guaranteeing to make sure you get exactly what you were expecting when it comes to runners it seems.

[seaside]

Thanks for your replies folk.
Not one of the 15 saved Firestorm seeds planted from last year are performing anything like a self-fertile plant... no better than the Polestars. I do have a nose, so that is empirical enough evidence for me as a layman, if that's OK  .
But I do understand they were out in the wild last year ... so next year a few of them will be under more controlled conditions. My paintbrush will be busy, even though I have an inkling what will be the result. In that way, I'll be classically scientific . But one never knows.

Anyway, the bumbles and their habits, and the lack of honeybees  is becoming a big issue for runner beans more than just about any other plant, and it's such a shame for such an otherwise well easy crop. Bumbles still serve foxgloves in the correct manner, so perhaps runners need bigger flowers.

[willp]

Round this way bumble bees have seemingly multiplied to fill the space left by the dearth of honey bees, which are few and far between

This has been similar to my experience - I`ve tried to encourage the BB`s on my plot - leaving water where they can get it (really - they were all over it in the hot weather!), sowing flowers to attract them and clearing a dry soil  bank for them to nest in.

Very few honey bees despite there being hives less than 500m away but Bumbles all over.

Very interesting to watch them on the runners - they have a try at the front and then swing around the back of the flower. Runners not been great - broad, french and borlotti are doing great and the bees have been doing sterling work on my squashes, cues and toms so I`m not too fussed.

Will