[Lardman]

Surely it is a good thing when anyone begins to take an interest in growing their own food. Hopefully an enjoyment of growing fruit and veg will ensue and over time confidence will build and then perhaps some of the 'old/traditional' ways will be incorporated into their growing endeavours.

I don't think anyone is knocking people that want to try and grow their own, or even the new methods - certainly what I was trying to point out is that in years gone by, time wouldn't be spent looking eagerly at the runner bean seed packs in January, it would be spent preparing the site. Something people now, don't do, don't need to do or do in an afternoon with mechanical help.

What a lot of self congratulatory, more holy than thou old humbug this has brought to the surface

More a passive aggressive whine at the acres and acres of growing space currently covered with black plastic that the tenant doesn't have time to cultivate, but they some how have lots of time to sow seeds into new weed free compost.

[chris23005]

Well I am a newbie to this site too although I am not a COMPLETE newbie to veg growing. We had an allotment where we lived before - there was  no access to water, the weeds grew faster than the veg did and what we got was decimated by rabbits! It was a thankless task - so why did we think we could do it? Well my husband was made redundant and out of work for three years, and I was the main breadwinner. He did all the digging and preparing of soil. I did the weeding (which was relentless). He planted all the heavy backbreaking stuff like potatoes, did all the fencing and supporting, and I planted stuff out, sowed seeds etc. It was very hit and miss but we were struggling for money and were trying to be a bit more self sufficient. I was doing my bit after a long week at a full time job and I was also teaching 3 evenings a week on top.  However, the amount of time we had to spend on the allotment just to gain a few carrots or leeks (after having to replant stuff because of the rabbits) was  not worth it and I can understand why other gardeners feel that they want to get the rotivator in or a "man with a spade". Part way through the allotment saga I became seriously ill with pneumonia (in the summer!) and the whole project went to pot. All those months just wasted - and then the rains came, and continued. We were constantly battling the elements (windy site in N Yorks) and to be honest, we were probably trying to rush the planting to beat the weather and because we were desperate to get some food out of the ground.

People grow veg for many different reasons - some because they like to, for others it is a hobby (the way knitting and craft, or cooking are also hobbies for me), some may be doing it just to get out of the house and get some fresh air (or away from the OH!) and for some it is a necessary way of life.

I really don't think we should be knocking anyone who wants to have a go at growing things - it is their decision as to how they go about it and they have to base that decision on their own lifestyle. I am now in a house with a larger than average garden and it is so much easier to tend part of my garden as a veg plot than deal with an allotment. I am on site all the time, I don't have to use petrol to ferry pots of seeds and water to the allotment (anyone taken that cost into account?) and we are not over-run with rabbits because we have a wall around the garden.  I also still have health difficulties which affect my knees and my back and if my husband wasn't here to be able to do the odd bit of digging for me, I too would have to find "a man with a spade" to turn over the soil.

I don't often feel the need to have a rant, but I did today - I appreciate the advice all you experienced gardeners have given me, but please remember that there is more than one way of growing veg and everyone has to make their own choices about what they do - and live with the consequences.

Sorry to be on my high horse, especially as I am new to the forum, but I thought the other side of the argument was worth bringing to the fore.

[Elcie]

I think you have made some very useful comments Chris, and a (belated) welcome to the forum from me.

I planted almost everything too early last year but I enjoyed it a lot and wouldn't change it for anything.  I now know that the sweetcorn I planted early did worse than the sweetcorn I planted a few weeks later and I also know that I don't need to sow a whole packet of seeds to be successful and that no one needs 100s of tomato plants!

However, I loved it all and remember reading similar threads to this last year and recognising that I had been a bit eager but still not caring as I had all my plants to tend to.  I had a very successful first full year last year and hopefully will be as successful this year, even if I am not spending all my Easter holidays potting on this year as I was last year!

Will I sow early again?  No as I have learned myself that it doesn't make much difference.  Would I want to tell someone else not to sow early?  Definitely not.  Learning yourself what works for you is the best approach to gardening as it is to almost everything in life.

[digalotty]

im with you ladies on this one (chris and elcie ) we all will make mistakes , but without them we will never learn and some years a early crop may bennefit from a warm spring but not this year.
i know a lot of people plant a early crop just in case they do get a head start and if they dont then its only a couple of packets of seeds and we always have to many of them anyway,  theres nothing wrong with doing things the easy way either using a rotovator may be better for someone who works all week and has young kids who want to spend time with them and not always on the plot.
but we all enjoy growing our veg one way or another weather its for cost or taste or just for leisure , so enjoy your plot and watching others doing things different is entertainment along the way

[titch]

If we never make mistakes we never learn............no different what age you are.

Sure, listen to those who have advice, some may be good, some may be bad, each to their own, and even if after all your hard work it all goes down the pan, at least you have got outside, breathed, de stressed, and enjoyed some time with your feet on the ground (not concrete, not pavement, ground, earth, soil).

the best way to learn is to get something wrong - that way its real, tangible, and next time the bells will ring and you will know a better way, example -  last year, thinking i didnt need to label my seed trays as i knew what was what in the green house - when it blew over and toppled them all down i had no idea anymore what was what   - so this year - labels, labels, labels

besides if we dont learn the ol grey stuff turns to mush 

[JayG]

Growing your own is not an exact science in that you can never guarantee 100% success however experienced and knowledgeable you are.

However, I don't understand the view that it is better to learn by making mistakes (which if serious enough almost guarantee failure and therefore probable disillusionment.)

The time for experimenting is surely after you have got a few successful growing seasons under your belt having done things more or less "by the book", but as ever everyone has a free choice as to whether they take on board or ignore any of the advice they are given given here or elsewhere.

[chris23005]

Growing your own is not an exact science in that you can never guarantee 100% success however experienced and knowledgeable you are.

However, I don't understand the view that it is better to learn by making mistakes (which if serious enough almost guarantee failure and therefore probable disillusionment.)

The time for experimenting is surely after you have got a few successful growing seasons under your belt having done things more or less "by the book", but as ever everyone has a free choice as to whether they take on board or ignore any of the advice they are given given here or elsewhere.

Well all I will say is this. I have spent the last 15 years teaching adults, and having studied how adults learn, my experience is that all adults learn in different ways. As an Adult Ed tutor I have to find at least four different ways to get the subject of my lesson across in order that everyone will have cottoned on!    so it stands to reason that even though people will ask for advice about veg growing they will then go on to adapt that advice to the way they function best. I have seen it time and time again - some students want the "handout" at the beginning of the lesson, others (if given the handout) then ignore the tutor and start having a go at EVERYTHING on the handout even if we are not covering that subject immediately. Yet still more will not even try until they have read the handout. And finally, you get the people on a course who "know it all anyway" and will continue to do it "their" way regardless. It is life.  So I believe the time for experimenting is whenever it suits you because we are different!

[SueG]

Well i think i fall in the category of an over enthusiastic first time veggie grower.

I have a plastic Wilco greenhouse with loads of seeds sowed.

Hubby is currently constructing three raised beds in the garden (piccys to follow).

I have so far:
dug up all the turf
double dug compacted clay soil.
Moved a ton of well rotted manure
A ton of top soil to go  .


Now , i am not expecting much this year, so anything that does grow will be a bonus but what i will achieve is experience, fresh air,  hard work and fun. The whole family has joined in, in one way or another, so an over enthusiastic first timer I maybe but am I bothered....no!..
If I get 1 lettuce and 1 tomato what a glorious sandwich that will be lol

I would like to thank all the forum members for their informative posts, as i have avidly read most of them and already leant alot

Good luck to all the first time veggies and thir growers

May the sun shine all summer

Sue

[LivvyW]

I think that it is very easy to forget what it was like when you were just starting off. I'm into my seventh year of veg growing and still learning. I made loads of mistakes (pretty much every one you could make) and was pretty dodo probably up until the last couple of years.

I remember being quite confused about the seed sowing stage ( i know just stick it in the ground) but, if you think about it...... How deep, how much to water, how much light/heat, when to pot on, how to handle seedlings, how many to sow. When you don't know how there seems to be an awful lot to learn.

Preparing a plot, feeding the soil and sticking plug plants in, and then looking after them is really a fairly simple way to get started and to see the cycle of a season.

And if, after a year of the simple approach, you see that there are much more cost effective ways of doing things, and start doing more of the work yourself and enjoying it, then that's great.

For those of us that feel they have the knowledge, lets be grateful and pass it on to newbies that want to just give it a go.

And for the couple of eejits who are just jumping on the GYO fashion bandwagon, sure won't they all be leaving  their neglected plots for someone else soon enough, and singing the praises of airfreighted veg over muddy misshapen home grown!

[Paul Plots]

What a lot of self congratulatory, more holy than thou old humbug this has brought to the surface.

Each to one own.

Do you use ready germinated plug thingies?

Great idea if you have loads of money and no space to pot on plants that need germinating under cover.... but the price of a few plug-plant carrots or beetroot is amazing especially as they grow easily from seed sown direct on the plot!

Must be some rich growers out there somewhere surely? 

[blackbob]

Don't like to dampen enthusiasm of new gardeners, we all learn by our mistakes. My 50yo sister is new to growing veg and a very keen cook, but very impatient. She has sown dwarf and runner beans into her new raised bed, and sweetcorn. It says on the packet you can sow them now, she says.  Never mind I said, there is plenty of time to try again. she lives in the Lake District!

i gave up years ago trying to tell people who know best.
so i just sit back now with a wry smile.always funny to watch the newbies gloating about how quick they are all planted up.
they then come asking what they can plant in late july when their first crops are done lol.