mixing sweetcorn

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safetrade

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mixing sweetcorn
« on: April 25, 2014, 08:07 »
hi,i set 2 types of sweetcorn away in the propogator.i was intending growing one in the pollytunel and one outside but ive had really poor germination so was wondering if i could mix them up and plant them together or would the cross polinate,the varieties are sweet bounty and swift.








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« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 08:45 by mumofstig »

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smellykipper

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 09:18 »
i was told yhey would be find aslong as your not keeping the seed to grow next year ?

i have swift and lark which i was going to grow together but now im going to grow them at each end of the allotment.

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Baldy

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 10:24 »
This paper from Purdue University has a section on cross-polination
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/ho-98.pdf

- In essence there are a number of different types of sweecorn "normal sugary (SU), sugary enhancer (SE) and supersweet (Sh2)." - and you don't want to cross pollinate them as the results would likely not be very good...

Cheers,
Balders

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DD.

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 10:37 »
In the main, the advice is not to grow two different types together, however, T & M say this about Lark F1:

Quote from: Thompson & Morgan

Sweetcorn Lark can be also grown with other varieties, so there is no need to isolate.


Did it really tell you to do THAT on the packet?

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JayG

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 11:26 »
Apparently Sweet Bounty is a supersweet variety, and Lark is a tendersweet.

If I've understood THIS ARTICLE correctly (and it ain't easy!) the Lark will be adversely affected by the SB, but probably not the other way round, although overall that still means you shouldn't grow them together.

Sweet corn quite unusual in that it is grown purely for the eating qualities of its seeds, so it has to make sense not to take deliberate chances with cross-pollination, especially as some is likely to take place anyway in allotment situations, especially where everyone is growing different types.
Sow your seeds, plant your plants. What's the difference? A couple of weeks or more when answering possible queries!

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Goosegirl

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 14:15 »
This paper from Purdue University has a section on cross-polination
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/ho-98.pdf
- In essence there are a number of different types of sweecorn "normal sugary (SU), sugary enhancer (SE) and supersweet (Sh2)." - and you don't want to cross pollinate them as the results would likely not be very good...
Cheers,
Balders
I've tried to work out what the difference is between SE and Sh2. Is it just the taste - can anyone enlighten me?
I work very hard so don't expect me to think as well.

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diospyros

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 15:09 »
If one is "early" and one "late" you may find they mature at different rates and flower at different times, so pollination and hence seed set may be patchy.

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Baldy

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 15:40 »
Goosegirl:

In the mid-1900’s, some very important new sweet corn genes were developed: ‘SH2’ shrunken gene and the ‘SE’ sugary enhanced gene.

The SH2 gene greatly boosts the amount of sugar in the endosperm (the part of the kernel where energy is stored for later use by the developing embryo), and that’s why SH2 varieties are often called ‘supersweets’. The seeds of these varieties have less starch in them, so they appear shriveled and weigh less than other sweet corn seeds. (Because of the shriveled characteristic of the seed, they are sometimes referred to as shrunken 2 or just SH2.) They can be a challenge to grow, especially in the north, because they need warmer soil for good germination. The SH2 gene slows the conversion of simple sugars to starch, so supersweet varieties have a much wider harvest window than other genotypes. SH2 varieties must be isolated or they will become tough and starchy, and they will also ruin SU or SE varieties grown next to them, if the pollen happens to cross.

The SE gene gives varieties improved eating quality over SU varieties by slightly increasing the level and changing the types of sugars in the kernels. SE varieties also have a very tender pericarp (the outer layer of the kernel). The SE gene does not slow the conversion of sugars to starch but the harvest window is slightly longer than with SU varieties because of elevated sugar levels. SE varieties do not require isolation from SU varieties, but they do require isolation from SH2 and field or popcorn.

Some SE varieties are sweeter than others, depending on whether one or both of their parents were sugary enhanced. Varieties that get the SE gene from both their parents are homozygous for that trait, or ‘double SE,’ and all of their kernels have the SE characteristics. Varieties that have just one SE parent are heterozygous, or ‘single SE,’ develop 25% of their kernels with SE traits. Typically a homozygous SE will have better eating quality than a heterozygous SE. For example, Tablesweet™ varieties such as Parfait are homozygous SE with high sugar levels and slightly better holding ability.

Within the SU and SE genotypes, modifier genes are responsible for differences in flavor. A variety can be homozygous or heterozygous for a modifier gene, just like the SE gene. Modifier genes are what allow breeders to develop so many different varieties. They are why it’s possible to have an 80-day, bi-color homozygous SE corn that has better eating quality that another variety that shares those same features.

In recent years new varieties have been developed that have different combinations of the three major genes (and their modifier genes) ‘stacked’ together. The goal of breeders is to put together the best characteristics from SU, SE and SH2 genes.

‘Synergistic’ varieties are heterozygous or homozygous SE, with the addition of some SH2 kernels. Sweet Breeds™ varieties such as Sweet Chorus and Sweet Rhythm have about 25% SH2 kernels, 25% SE kernels and 50% SU kernels. The seed has SU vigor but higher sugars.  Triplesweet™ varieties such as Providence have 100% SE kernels, 25% of which also have the SH2 trait.  These are like double SE varieties in vigor, but sweeter.

‘Augmented SH2’ varieties are supersweet types that also have the SE trait in all their kernels. Examples include Gourmet Sweet™, Multisweet™ and Xtra-Tender Brand™. These are high in sugars, slow to convert to starch, and tender like an SE. Mirai has all three genotype traits in its kernels: SH2, SE and SU.

Hope that helps  ;)

Cheers,
Balders

http://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/factsheets/corngenotypes.html
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« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 16:21 by mumofstig »

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Baldy

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 15:45 »
... possiby should have put much of the previous post in comments - as all that info. didn't just come off the top of my head...  :D

Cheers,
Balders

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gavinjconway

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 16:53 »
My take on growing sweet corn ...

Firstly you need to plant them in a block if possible few lines wide each way rather than 2 or 3 long lines to aid pollination.. you get better pollination when they are together as the pollen is distributed by wind..

You basically get 3 types of sweetcorn.
Hybrid Sweets = abbreviated as su
Supersweets = abbreviated as sh2
Sugar Enhanced = abbreviated as se

You can't just plant any of them together or you will get mutations of types and really strange cobs..

So basically I have been doing research on it and done the following easy reference - I also now understand it!!

Supersweets (sh2) must only be grown on their own or 2 or 3 other sh2 types..
Hybrid Sweets (su) and Sugar Enhanced (se) can be mixed with each other no problem.

If you have (like me) different types on the same plot they say they should be at least 50-100' apart... a bit difficult sometimes!!

The types are sometimes noted on the seed descriptions but if not try to google them to find out what they are.

Baby Corn... Answer - No problem. Baby corn you can plant with anything as you pick it before it pollinates, but if you miss some they will cross with other corns. I would also cut the tassles off the mini corn so no pollen might stray to other normal sweetcorn.

Hope this makes sense and helps.
GJC

Now a member of the 10 Ton club.... 2013  harvested 588 Kg from 165 sq mt..

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safetrade

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 18:23 »
it makes sense,thank you :D

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Goosegirl

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2014, 11:30 »
Thanks all, especially Balder's in-depth explanation.

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Baldy

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Re: mixing sweetcorn
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2014, 14:49 »
No problemo GG  ;)

Cheers,
Balders


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