Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Eating and Drinking => Cooking, Storing and Preserving => Topic started by: Ice on March 12, 2009, 18:56
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I made some French country bread today. The recipe worked really well but the texture is too fluffy. I prefer a firmer textured bread and wondered if there is anything I can do to develop the gluten more.
Yes, I did use my new toy to knead the dough. :)
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I think we need a taste to be able to give you advice on that ::) ::)
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Here, have a smell. Samples have been pm'd.
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/Dee56_photos/001-9.jpg)
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Did you add any salt ???.......... salt strengthens gluten......
Salt is usually added to bread to improve flavor and affect the character of the dough. A small amount of salt reduces the rate of fermentation appropiately, allowing time for the development of flavor compounds and the strengthening of the gluten. It is said that salt has a tightening effect on the proteins, permitting them to stretch without breaking. Some salt also promotes the activity of amylases and inhibits the action of proteases which are responsible for hydrolyzing flour proteins.
Too much salt has a similar osmotic effect as excess sugar, in that it limits the amount of water and nutrients that may be taken up by the yeast cells. No salt produces a dough which is sticky and hard to handle, due to the action of proteases on the flour proteins. There is also a weakened gluten which allows overexpansion of gases during fermentation due to the extremely rapid fermentation which takes place in the absence of salt. As the dough bakes, the gas cells may rupture and result in a bread with a coarse crumb and flat flavor.
Just a thought :blink:
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Looks like a good crumb to me.
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It does have salt in it. Could it be that I should knead it for longer? It does look superb, I must say but I'm a bit of perfectionist when it comes to cooking and baking.
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You could try increasing the kneeding time.
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what about slightly less water/liquid?
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what about slightly less water/liquid?
I'll have to experiment until I get it right. Unfortunately it takes 2 to 3 days to get the starter going. This could take some time. :lol:
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what about slightly less water/liquid?
I'll have to experiment until I get it right. Unfortunately it takes 2 to 3 days to get the starter going. This could take some time. :lol:
Does it take that long from a saved starter? The one I use, once it is active I can use it evry day.
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I'm a bit new to this whole starter thing. I had a sourdough one that was great until I used metal utensils. I was just following a recipe in a book, but the idea of keeping a starter is a good one.
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The general rule is that once you have got a starter going that each day you take out some to use and put back the same amout of flour and water to feed it. I find that I don't bake bread every day and you can keep a pot of starter in the fridge. If it's in there for for 24/48 hours it will work once back to room temp. If you keep it for longer, you need to dig a bit of the gunge from the bottom of the jar (it will be underneath some grey liquid-yuk!) and put it into more fresh flour and water and build up the starter again.
By using the gunge instead of starting again the flavour develops.
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Thanks Pooly, if I can get one going again I will be a happy bunny. Sourdough is my absolute favourite bread.
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re: the salt thing - i read that adding salt at the same time as yeast has an adverse effect - if you use re-activated yeast (y'know, the one you make with water in a cup first then throw in) then you can add the salt to the flour and mix it in before adding the yeast mix.
my bread's normally stodgy, so maybe it does work!
:lol:
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I should have this worked out by Christmas. :lol:
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I should have this worked out by Christmas. :lol:
Which year?? ;)
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I should have this worked out by Christmas. :lol:
Which year?? ;)
I'm not THAT stupid, by 2012 quite easily. :tongue2:
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Aren't you lot clever! :)
I just bung everything in my (I think it's a Kenwood) breadmaker and go back later to eat it. A Christmas present that was greeted with scepticism by me at the time but now is in frequent use due to family demand.
Seems I'm the only one capable of reading the instructions and pushing "Go". ::)
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Been there, done the breadmaker. I loved mine for a very long time and think they are great. But, I have too much time on my hands and need a new challenge. No disrespect to anyone that owns one. :tongue2:
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I still love my breadmaker, it is the every day bread that I use it for. My sourdough seems to take 24 hours to make so I only make it every now and again (I am obviously busier than Ice :tongue2:) :lol: :lol:
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:tongue2:
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Summer holdays when I have time I have a bash at making bread by hand - great fun but I usually dump everything in the bread-maker as it is reliable and easy as well as quicker.
My machine reverses the "paddle" before baking so there's no need to dig out the mixery bit once the bread is baked. I had avoided bread-machines for ages thinking it was just another contraption that wouldn't be used but the family love the results and it's better tasting than the local supermarket can manage. :)
No local baker any more - undercut by big stores and driven out :(
I love "Irish" soda bread which the bread maker doesn't manage - shame :(
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I love soda bread as well and have wondered whether the bake programme would do the job. I'll have a go and let you know.
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What does it feel like to have too much time on your hands. I never have enough, shame we cant do a trade. :D
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I wish we could do a trade too. At least the spring is almost here and I can spend most of the day pottering in the garden.
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Summer holdays when I have time I have a bash at making bread by hand - great fun but I usually dump everything in the bread-maker as it is reliable and easy as well as quicker.
I love "Irish" soda bread which the bread maker doesn't manage - shame :(
I had a go, I made a half quantity of my normal soda bread then dropped it in the breadmaker and turned on the bake cycle. As it was only 8oz flour i left it for 35 mins of the 1 hour programme and I am now eating soda bread and jam for elevensise :D
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Summer holdays when I have time I have a bash at making bread by hand - great fun but I usually dump everything in the bread-maker as it is reliable and easy as well as quicker.
I love "Irish" soda bread which the bread maker doesn't manage - shame :(
I had a go, I made a half quantity of my normal soda bread then dropped it in the breadmaker and turned on the bake cycle. As it was only 8oz flour i left it for 35 mins of the 1 hour programme and I am now eating soda bread and jam for elevensise :D
Post a slice!! I love it....
Thanks for the information - come the summer holidays I will have a go. :)
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Sounds delish Poolfield2!! Never tried putting dough in the breadmaker to bake, only taking the kneaded dough out to cook as rolls. Have to try it when I have some time
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It saves heating the oven for just a little loaf. :D
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Hi Ice - I bake about 72 loaves every Friday. If your dough is a bit fluffy, you don't have to increase the amount of kneading you do. In fact you don't need to knead (that's not easy to write) very much at all. If you mix your dough, leave for 10 minutes and the gluten starts to develop on its own, knead for 2 mins and then stretch the dough along the counter, folding it into the middle and turning it and doing it again. Then leave for 20 minutes, knead for 2 mins and stretch again. Put into your tin or shape onto your baking tray. Leave for a final rise (to roughly double in size) and then bake. The other thing you can do to firm up the crumb is to increase the percentage of rye flour or wholemeal.
Have you ever tried a Grant loaf? It doesn't have ANY kneading and it's delicious and substantial. I'd be happy to post a recipe if anyone's interested.
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Thank you for that answer, very useful indeed. Recipes are almost compulsory on this forum as well as photos so please post any you would like to share.
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Ooo yes please, recipe! I love bread recipes, just wish I could eat bread made from wheat :(