[hightower]

Hey folks,

I'll start by apologising, I know these kind of threads are probably common by newbies like me, so if I've missed something obvious please kindly post a link to alert me to it.

I've aquired a new garden. It's my grandad's allotment but he's getting on so is struggling to get up. I'm collecting the keys off him tonight. It already has some advantages and disadvantages such as:

Disadvantages:
1) Garden was used for pigeons, not for veg so nothing is ready for veg gardening (except one thing, see advantages)
2) Allotment is a double plot - lot of work involved in getting it up to scratch
3) Allotment has structures which I will not need/want, so need to get rid of (caravan used for grain storage)

Advantages
1) Garden was used for pigeons, and has a fairly new loft on site - I would imagine this can be easily converted to allow for livestock of my own
2) Allotment is a double plot - a lot to take on, but plenty of room to achieve what I want
3) The wooden pigeon lofts (the older ones) I don't want, so I can reuse the wood to create compost bins and raised beds etc
4) The cabin (where my grandad used to watch the birds drop) is pretty new, and a fair size. It has glass on 3 sides so I imagine with a few screws and a little wood I can turn this into a potting shed/toolstore/cabin for a cuppa.

Anyhow, that's the background. I get the keys tonight, but I'm trying to figure out a plan. I orginally wanted to go organic, but after reading THIS I think I have decided to do this the chemical way to get started, and then as soon as the plot is up to scratch start transferring my ways to that of the organic gardener. Here's my plan (taken from the above article):

1) Petrol strimmer to get rid of tall weeds, get as low as possible, burn cuttings on fire
2) Spray the plot with weedkiller, and leave for a month
3) Hire a rotovator and dig the garden over after weeds are dead
4) Put compost on the plots and rotovate again
5) While waiting for weedkiller to work, dismantle the buildings I don't want and start work building the compost area. Burn left overs on fire

I'm not green fingered at all yet (only started on a cold frame a month ago), so can people help me buy answering the following questions:

1) Does my plan look ok? If not, what am I missing/doing wrong?
2) Should I be okay spraying weeds with weedkiller? Do I need to check this with allotment association?
3) How do I go about disposing of the rotten old caravan on the plot?
4) Anything else I might need to consider?

Many MANY thanks!

[aelf]

Hiya,

Sounds like a lovely sized plot with loads of potential 

Weedkillers work best on growing weeds (the systemic ones, anyway) so cutting them down first would be counterproductive. On the other hand, strimming them will give you a great bulk of organic matter for your compost heap (I wouldn't burn them). Once cut back, the weeds will go into overdrive and, in about 10 days, you will be ankle-deep in new weeds  Many people cover the plot with weed-suppressant (plastic or cardboard etc) and start working a small area first. Get that bit sorted and then start work on another bit. There are lots of threads and other 'start-up' info on this website - have a bit of a furtle round it for more info.

And good luck! 

[hightower]

I'm liking the thought of killing the lot down though in a month or so, it sounds appealing (even though it's non-organic). If I take the weedkiller route, is it best not to strim and instead just apply the weedkiller?

[Kajazy]

Hello,

I was in exactly the same situation as you a few months ago (minus the pigeons, of course!) and followed roughly your plan. Be aware that for Round-Up/Glyphosate to work it needs to be taken down by the green bits of the plant (leaves/stems etc) into the roots, so by all means cut down the big stuff like brambles, but the weedkiller needs the new growth for it to work (my mistake!! I'm learning...). Some weeks (e.g. bindweed and mares tail) need a bit more than one application - they're persistent beggars! If you have mares tail (as I do) then you'll need to bruise the greenery before applying the weedkiller in order for it to penetrate it's silica-coated exterior! MAKE SURE THE WEEDS ARE DEAD BEFORE ROTAVATING - another mistake of mine!! I've now nicely chopped up my bindweed roots so in place of one plant I have thousands! I new plant will spring up from each bit of chopped up root. Ho hum. You live and learn.

But in general, I think your plan sounds efficient and will get you going quickly. Have you been growing some plants from seed somewhere else? That's what I did in order to have something to plant out when the ground was ready, as I'd missed some of the sowing season.

Good luck!

[Azazello]

Might I encourage you to take your cuttings to a recycle centre or compost for your own use, rather than burn everything?

Also if you have couch grass, I wouldn't use a rotavator as you will make that problem much worse.

[hightower]

Hello,

I was in exactly the same situation as you a few months ago (minus the pigeons, of course!) and followed roughly your plan. Be aware that for Round-Up/Glyphosate to work it needs to be taken down by the green bits of the plant (leaves/stems etc) into the roots, so by all means cut down the big stuff like brambles, but the weedkiller needs the new growth for it to work (my mistake!! I'm learning...). Some weeks (e.g. bindweed and mares tail) need a bit more than one application - they're persistent beggars! If you have mares tail (as I do) then you'll need to bruise the greenery before applying the weedkiller in order for it to penetrate it's silica-coated exterior! MAKE SURE THE WEEDS ARE DEAD BEFORE ROTAVATING - another mistake of mine!! I've now nicely chopped up my bindweed roots so in place of one plant I have thousands! I new plant will spring up from each bit of chopped up root. Ho hum. You live and learn.

But in general, I think your plan sounds efficient and will get you going quickly. Have you been growing some plants from seed somewhere else? That's what I did in order to have something to plant out when the ground was ready, as I'd missed some of the sowing season.

Good luck!

Thanks for your reply! Just the kind of info I was looking for. I haven't been growing seeds (apart from a handful of tomatoes, some pea's, onion, herbs, and peppers in a small cold frame). I'm planning on getting up and running in time to do the stuff plantable later in the year (turnips and swedes I believe etc), and then start fully next year.

Couple of questions - how long did you wait between weedkiller application and rotavation? How do you 'bruise' the mares tail? I appreciate the advice from you both - I will leave the strimmer at home tonight!

On another note, Jewsons do a rotavator for about £35 per day - doesn't seem bad at all.

[Kajazy]

Thanks for your reply! Just the kind of info I was looking for. I haven't been growing seeds (apart from a handful of tomatoes, some pea's, onion, herbs, and peppers in a small cold frame). I'm planning on getting up and running in time to do the stuff plantable later in the year (turnips and swedes I believe etc), and then start fully next year.

Couple of questions - how long did you wait between weedkiller application and rotavation? How do you 'bruise' the mares tail? I appreciate the advice from you both - I will leave the strimmer at home tonight!

On another note, Jewsons do a rotavator for about £35 per day - doesn't seem bad at all.

Hi Hightower,
I obviously didn't wait long enough! But also I was trying to kill the weeds earlier in the year when they weren't growing so vigorously - they'll be growing like crazy now, so the weedkiller will work better now - also make sure that it's not affected by rain - if it rains within 6 hours of application, then efficacy will be compromised. But generally (and please note that this is my first year of growing too, so this is a case of the blind leading the not so blind!), it's worked when the weeds LOOK dead, dead, dead!

Bruising mares tail - lots of people stomp on them to bruise them - I stuck my fingernail into the stems or crushed them in my hand.

I also looked into hiring a rotavator and was quoted £70 for 2 days, so yours looks about right - in the end a lovely fellow allotment holder and village neighbour did it for me with his own rotavator for £35! I'm in his debt (and so is my recently operated-on back!).

Re. growing - there's loads of stuff you'll still be able to grow, you're right. Lots of brassicas - my favourite anyway!

[hightower]

I suppose what I'm really worried about is the plan. I've been reading, reading, reading and understand about crop rotation and all the other things that I would never have know 2 months ago.

The thing that worried me is, let's say I'm making a plan to grow some turnips and such. What do I plant with the turnips, how much of the plot should I assign for them, what are the special requirements.

There's a whole load of help about, but at times I just feel like "woah, what now? should I be doing this? etc". I know it will all come with experience (as does everything in life!) but there is a lot to take on board.

I think I'm going to get my hands on a diary and make out each week "sow this, transplant that, harvest this, don't forget to water, feed this week, nip the trusses" *sigh*

[TerryB]

Hi Kajazy
The plan sounds fine if you leave time between strimming and appling the weed killer to allow the weeds to put on some new growth.
If you have time and the energy I would dig over an area, even if its only small, and remove
any weed/roots by hand and get something planted.
This way the area that has been rotavate can have a second helping of weed killer when all the seeds/roots turned up by the rotavator start to grow, as a lot will.
Good luck and enjoy.

[waddecar]

I think the plan is fine you will learn to tweak it as you go along.

Have you had any contact with the allotment association or landlords - just make sure that you can take over from Grandad before investing too much time and money

[TerryB]

Sorry Hightower sent reply to Kajazy by mistake.
Check out this site for all the information but also get a book you can keep on the allotment.

[potatogrower]

i would dig it all up. don't bother saving too much of the soil but put it in a bag ready to throw away. its hard work but rewarding.

slowly take everything to the recycling depot if its close by and you have a car. weedkiller might cost quite a bit depending on the size of your plot and some may need a double dose. horsetail is dangerous, if you spot it, bruise it and give it roundup, don't think there is a definite plan on how to rid of them but just weedkill them or dig it out and destroy. once you clear everything then you could either rotivate it as it is, get growmore or groworganic fertilizer, sprinkle it around and rotivate it in and start growing. Or alternatively, get plenty of horse muck from a safe source, if you can get it delivered for a small cost then do that, liberally spread it everywhere on top of soil and start growing next year, by the time the muck would have died down and make your plot very fertile. in the meantime put a dairy together and plan ahead and learn how to grow things when and where.

good luck!
PG