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Wildeone

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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 19:29 »
Unless you managed to mind read i said nothing naughty at all!!!!

I'm saying nothing until my lawyer is present  :wink:  :lol:
1 x hubby
2 x daughters
3 x chickens
1 x bunny
6 x african snails  . . . . . and counting.

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Tinbasher

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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 19:30 »
Quote from: "crackedflowerpots"
thanks tinbasher ... gonna have another peek ... and look for foam or froth ... didnt notice any of that, only the bulge! ... wish me luck!


Foaming tends to be more day 2 or 3, when it's really steaming.

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crackedflowerpots

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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 19:32 »
Quote from: "Tinbasher"
Quote from: "crackedflowerpots"
is it ... OPEN AND SHUT QUICK ... or ....OPEN SLOWLY AND LEAVE OPEN?


He-he, anyone would think we were dealing with deadly microbes from outer space.

Just lift a small portion of the lid so that it's off the snap-seal that causes it to be fully closed.  Just a bit like you would for the corner of a tupperware sandwich box, and leave it like that.  To all intents the lid will still look closed, except it won't be fully pressed down all the way round.  You only need that small portion of the lid unsealed for any pressure to escape.


What you do need to be more vigilant about is when you properly seal the beer in either bottles or a keg, and then introduce more sugar for a secondary ferment.  This is so as the beer will be gassy and have a head.  DO NOT overdo the addition of secondary sugar, which as far as bottles go is 1 LEVEL teaspoon of sugar per pint.  Kegs vary and if you have instructions, follow those, but a general rule is 2 oz of sugar in the keg for a 40 pint brew.  You will need though a further method of gassing up the beer in a keg (CO2 injection) as usually only about half the beer delivers itself thru the tap under it's 'own steam'.  For this reason I always find bottling is better and also bottles are easier to move to a cool storage place and leave there to mature.  

Don't forget you need a cool place once the beer has first bucket-fermented and then secondary-fermented (bottles or keg).  Warm beer isn't too nice apart from which it's the cooler environment that helps the beer to clear.

If the OH is tempted to start sampling before time remind him/her that to do so is to risk spending the next 2 days or so constantly visiting the bathroom.  Good for you - plenty of Vitamin B - but there is a side-effect !!


thanks for the good advice ... i didnt know about adding sugar to the keg ... these kits are meant to be idiot proof ... what does that say about me? :oops:
if it grows, it grows! if it doesnt ,, ah well .. there's always next year. :-)

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Tinbasher

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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2008, 19:33 »
Quote from: "crackedflowerpots"
:oops: it appears to have been a little bit of wind ... thats much better thanks ... but the head is only about a centimetre ... i was hoping for more :cry:


After just a day?  That sounds perfect to me.  Just wait a while and in another day or 2 you'll be back here panicking that it's growing like Quatermass.

In the warm conditions you have it, ferment should be fully done in 7 to 10 days I would have thought.

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crackedflowerpots

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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2008, 19:35 »
its exciting :D

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Tinbasher

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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2008, 19:54 »
Quote from: "crackedflowerpots"
its exciting :D


Aye.  Do you have a hydrometer?  You shouldn't be without one, but to be honest I don't use them all the time, mainly cos of sheer laziness!  Experience eventually gets you by.

Having said that, beer is a lot easier to measure (than wine in demijohns), cos you can just suspend the hydrometer direct in the bucket.  Move any small floaters (bits of foam left) and have the bucket on a level surface and steady.  Put the hydro in the centre of the mix and let it bob itself to its steady point, like a fishing float.  Read the level.  It should be back to more or less zero.  Very slightly above is ok.  You may get slightly under which is also ok.  At this point it's fermented all the initial sugar and will now be still.  Common sense will tell you things are much calmer than the few days of bubbling froth, and you should see no bubbles rising and more or less all the foam will be gone.  The beer won't taste sweet.  A calculation of dates is a fairly rough guide too.  Ten days in the warmth is usually sufficient.

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crackedflowerpots

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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2008, 06:59 »
i'm much calmer now :D  i do have a hydrometer and intend to use it!
please tell me if i'm on the right track ...
i wait for a few days then when bubbles and foaming stops, use hydrometer and when it bobs about and reads zero i can syphon into keg with approx 2oz sugar ... leave it for about 3 weeks ... then put lager in 2 litre plastic bottles .. (at this point i may need a co2 cylinder thingy) put bottles in cool place .... and leave ... for how long? ... and drink :D
btw ... i do appreciate your patience with me :oops:

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Tinbasher

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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2008, 12:40 »
Quote from: "crackedflowerpots"
i'm much calmer now :D  i do have a hydrometer and intend to use it!
please tell me if i'm on the right track ...
i wait for a few days then when bubbles and foaming stops, use hydrometer and when it bobs about and reads zero i can syphon into keg with approx 2oz sugar ... leave it for about 3 weeks ... then put lager in 2 litre plastic bottles .. (at this point i may need a co2 cylinder thingy) put bottles in cool place .... and leave ... for how long? ... and drink :D
btw ... i do appreciate your patience with me :oops:



Firstly, either you are putting the bucket-fermented beer straight into bottles (with a teaspoon of sugar per pint), OR you are putting into a pressure keg.  If you are using a keg, then that is it, you don't then bottle it later.  It is drunk straight from the keg, dispensed under it's own gas pressure (from the secondary 2oz of sugar) for about half the brew, before you will need to inject some gas (CO2) to propel the remainder out the keg.  If you are going for bottles, then it goes straight into the bottles from the bucket.  Plastic bottles are ok as long as they are ones that previously contained gassy liquids (beer, fizzy pop, fizzy cider, etc).  Don't use any old plastic bottle as they may not be strong enough to contain pressure (still cordial bottles for instance).  Glass bottles are better, they look nicer and are easy to clean.  BUT - on no account use glass bottles that aren't pressure bottles (as above).  Apart from messy, they are very dangerous if they do explode (flying glass). And they will have a tendency to explode when disturbed - just when you pick them up for instance!  Wine bottles are no good, neither are milk bottles or still cider bottles.  Beer bottles are best and the best ones of all are Grolsch bottles with the swing-tops that can be used again and again.  Normal beer bottles will need a supply of traditional metal caps and a device for putting them on (a capper).  At this stage you are probably better using what you can (screw cap bottles) rather than rush out and buy loads of kit

Keep the bucket in the same place to do its job.  If it's warm as you say, this should take 7 days (at best) or more likely about 10 days.  Measure the sugar content with the hydro after say 7 days.  Keeping in the bucket a day or two longer than a zero reading won't do any harm as long as it's covered.  

The day you decide to siphon out, you need to have the bucket on a higher level than whatever receptacle(s) you are siphoning into - gravity is all important in siphoning - liquid won't flow 'up hill'.  If you have to move the bucket to achieve this, then do so a couple of hours before the operation to let any disturbance settle again.  Obviously don't be rough when you move the bucket - no sloshing about and disturbing the bottom sediment.  Carry the bucket carefully (you may need help, it will be fairly heavy).  Don't trust the bucket handle (or handles) alone when carrying.  You won't be the first person who has a handle snap or become detached whilst carrying  :shock:   A fine mess can result and the carpet will stink of beer forever.  I carefully carry the bucket and put it on the kitchen worktop and have my receiving vessel or bottles on the kitchen floor (which is tiled so easy to clean any drops spilled).

When you put the bucket on the worktop/table or whatever, it's a good idea to put a short beam of timber (3" x 2" or similar) under the rear edge of the bucket, so tilting the bucket forwards a bit.  This helps you to get the most out with the siphon tube as the liquid gathers in the forward area.  When you get the hang of it, and as the bucket becomes near empty (and thus lighter in weight), you can manually tilt even further so as to get almost all the liquid without the sediment.  It can be a bit tricky and it's no shame to have a 2nd pair of hands to help.

If you're really careful, you can use a clean jug (do it steadily and slowly - no plunging the jug in) to get around 3 qtrs of the beer out, before resorting to a siphon.  Modern yeasts form a much tighter deposit that clings better to the bottom than yeasts of old that were much easier disturbed.  If you use the jug method, then a clean funnel is all that's needed to get the beer into bottles.  Into a keg shouldn't need a funnel as the opening is adequate for pouring direct from the jug.

Put your siphon tube (make sure it's clean and has had a solution of steriliser run through it - then rinse through with clean water) in the bucket as low as possible without touching the bottom sediment.  An old fashioned wooden clothes peg (the ones that have a spring and two jaws) is a good aid to clip the pipe to the rim of the bucket and keep it there, thus freeing your hands.  The good thing about bottles is that if the last half gallon or so in the bucket does encounter some disturbance and you get a bit of clouding, then it's only those last bottles that get it.  You can always mark the bottles and take extra care when pouring from them.  Any cloudiness will still settle as bottle sediment, just a bit more of it than your first bottles.

Your siphon tube is best fitted with a tap at the delivery end that you can turn off as each bottle is filled.  Nonetheless, pint bottles fill quite rapidly and you need to have your wits about you, be fairly dextrous and not clumsy, else you'll overfill, have beer pouring out the top, which then causes a bit of panic which is how accidents happen.  Kegs aren't as bad as there is no way you can overfill the keg - they are usually 40 pints plus allowance in capacity.  If you use bottles and find the events a bit too quick for your liking, then again, siphon the beer into a clean 2 pint (or even larger) jug and from there funnel into the bottle.  As I said, I prefer the jug method from the beginning, and only tend to use the siphon for the last half or even quarter.  It's much quicker and less tricky.

It is best not to lift the submerged end of the siphon tube out of the beer in the bucket.  The clothes peg will help in keeping the tube in the same place throughout.  If you do need to (carefully) move the tube a little deeper as the beer level falls, then do so, and peg it again in its new position.  If the end is lifted out of the beer, or the tube isn't deep enough and the level falls below the end of the tube, then the beer will cease to flow, and you'll have to submerge it further and start again by sucking on the tube.  Nice you may think, but repeated submerging and erm, sucking, can result in disturbing the sediment a little, especially the lower the level is.  Much better to get the tube as low as possible the 1st time and peg into position.  Use the tap on the delivery end of the tube to stop/start the flow.

If you do have a minor upset, disturb some sediment and the beer clouds, then don't despair.  Put the lid back on the bucket (loosely will do) and wait a couple of hours for it to settle again, then resume.

The secondary ferment in the keg or bottles should take a minimum of 3 days in a warm place.  Better to say a week.  Then move the bottles (generally easier) or the keg into a cool place and wait another 3 days (if you're impatient and need a drink) or again a week.  Beer will get better and better the longer it's stored (up to about 6 months max).  The last bottles will taste nicer than the first, unless you guzzle it all in the first week - not unknown I have to admit.

I try (don't always succeed) to keep a bottle or two to one side for a few months to let it mature fully, by which time I've made a 2nd or even 3rd (or even more  :shock: ) brew to be going on with.  Try to start another brew in the bucket when you've got down to half your bottles or keg, so as to have more or less a continuous supply.  You will however need a 2nd keg, or loads more bottles to achieve this overlap.  Just start collecting stuff you need as of now.  Plastic beer-bottle crates (or even milk-bottle crates) are useful for keeping bottles neatly together and for ease of moving them around.

Equip yourself with a couple of plastic measuring jugs (2 pints and even larger if you see one) and a new plastic funnel.  Keep these to one side and use them just for brewing.  Sterilise them each time you bring them out for use, and wash and rinse them afterwards.  Another invaluable device is an ordinary 1 pint (half litre) plant sprayer.  The plastic type that you operate by hand-squeezing a trigger - the sort used for spraying your plants against greenfly and such.  Get a new one and keep exclusively for brewing.  Fill it with a solution of steriliser - it will keep ok and potent for weeks.  This is useful for spot-sterilising areas, the insides of buckets, jugs, funnels etc, and even the worktop.  You can quickly cover the inside of a bucket with a fine mist of solution.  It's economical in the use of steriliser and you don't have to have pints of solution sloshing about all over.

I suppose I should say this - please drink responsibly - not that you didn't know this already.

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crackedflowerpots

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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2008, 12:49 »
that was so helpful thanks.
I was only going to bottle it from the keg to free the keg for batch no2. but i suppose i shouldnt be too greedy or ambitious at this stage. (I might not even like it!)

and as anyone who doesnt know me at all will verify, i hardly ever touch the stuff :oops:

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Tinbasher

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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2008, 13:36 »
Quote from: "crackedflowerpots"
that was so helpful thanks.
I was only going to bottle it from the keg to free the keg for batch no2. but i suppose i shouldnt be too greedy or ambitious at this stage. (I might not even like it!)

and as anyone who doesnt know me at all will verify, i hardly ever touch the stuff :oops:


You'll be ok.  You will have an upset now and then, but everyone does at some point.  I once picked up a full demijohn of elderberry wine, by the carrying loops on the neck of the vessel (one finger inserted), and was patting a fairly tight bung into the neck with the palm of the other hand.  Whooops - the glass eye broke off and the lot plunged to the floor (and smashed even though it was carpet) and a gallon of fine wine was lost and my daughter's bedroom carpet was forever burgundy coloured.   :oops:   I got my ears roasted and had to go out and buy some new carpet.  I've never carried a demijohn by the 'ears' since.  Always one hand under the bottom from now on and get the vessel stable on a soft surface if any force is needed to insert a bung.

Put your sugar in any bottles you are using first, before you jug or siphon the beer in.  A teaspoon sometimes doesn't easily fit into a bottle neck - in fact it never does.  Get a clean piece of paper, crease it down the middle and put your sugar on the paper.  Tilt the sheet of paper with the crease line running into the bottle neck.  The sugar should flow smoothly down the crease and into the bottle.  Better still, buy a packet of Miracle Grow soluble plant feed (the blue powder), and requisition the little green spoon from inside.  Obviously wash it thoroughly.  The small end of the spoon is a qtr teaspoon in size and fits nicely into a bottle neck.  So, four of these small scoops = 1 teaspoon = 1 pint of bottled beer.

Don't bottle from the keg.  Any gas pressure you have built up from the secondary ferment in the keg, will be lost as you transfer into bottles.  So you'll then have to sugar the bottles and start over the 2ndary ferment again.  You may as well have just gone for bottles in the first place.  The beer will end up stronger (more sugar fermented = more alcohol produced), though there is a limit of alcoholic strength that the yeast can endure.  If the yeast is killed (too hot, too much alcohol) then any sugar left will simply remain and the beer will be sweet.  Continuous adding of sugar beyond recommended levels could also be dangerous if glass bottles are the end receptacle.  You may sugar the keg, transfer and risk sugaring some bottles (cos the beer could be flat if you don't), but make a miscalculation and end up with just a bit too much pressure in a glass bottle.  At best, excess pressure can result in 3 qtrs of the pint of beer foaming uncontrollably out of the bottle the minute you open it.  You know what beer can be like if the can or bottle is shaken, or is too warm or has too much pressure in there in the 1st place.

Kegs or bottles have pros and cons for each:

Kegs are more convenient to transfer to.  All the beer is contained in one vessel.  Probably the best is that it's a good buzz having beer 'on tap' right there at home.  It is exciting watching it come busily gushing out, especially the first bit on its own steam.  Only one vessel has to be cleaned and rinsed after use.  It's easier with the sugar rather than fiddling about with loads of little bits of sugar as in bottles.

Against that, you need CO2 injection after about the half the beer is used.  Kegs are heavy to move about - again don't trust just the carrying handle on a full keg.  Get your arms round it like you love it.  :oops:   Kegs can't be put in the fridge for cooling if it's a bit warm.  You can't put away a portion of the brew for long-term maturing.  You're stuck with just that one brew till it's all used, unless you get a 2nd keg or back up with bottles.

Bottles are easier moved about, especially in crates.  Individual bottles can be chilled, can be stored longer term.  If the cap is good (waste of time if they aren't in the 1st place) they keep live and gassy throughout without any need for gas cylinders (and the cost) and valves and such.

However bottles are more of a fiddle to fill with sugar and beer.  They do need rinsing out thoroughly asap after emptying, else you'll never get them clean.  Then they all need alittle  bit of steriliser solution in them and capping again to keep them in best feckle for next time round.

Ideally, I would aim at going for both.  Having a keg ready to dispense is always a good thing and can be for everyday  :D  use.  Having 40 or 50 bottles from another kit is sound for back up.

Actually I hardly ever drink and only tend to do beer in the summer months.  Wine tends to occur from late summer (fruits) thru autumn and maybe into winter (carrot or rhubarb).  Last count I had 103 gallons, about half bottled and half still in demijohns.  The last bottle I drank was weeks ago, Christmas probably.  I need to stop really, but it's become an obsession and people still keep giving me bits of kit, mainly old demijohns, so I am inspired to expand ever further.  The ceiling will give way soon - it's all in the attic  !!

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Wildeone

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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2008, 13:41 »
All round tinbashers for a party!!!!! :lol:

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crackedflowerpots

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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2008, 13:46 »
my daughter bought the kit for hubby for Christmas and the keg for his birthday (we were moaning about having to drink so much lemonade to get enough bottles) i'd like to make real beer and real wine but as you can see i'm not quite at that stage yet.

if mine goes horribly wrong tinbasher, can we have some of yours please ... if only for the sake of your attic floor! :D (I'm sure wildeone will fetch it over for me :D )

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Wildeone

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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2008, 13:47 »
Wine and beer does tend to evaporate during transit you know!!!

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crackedflowerpots

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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2008, 13:52 »
Quote from: "Wildeone"
Wine and beer does tend to evaporate during transit you know!!!


 :evil: dont toucha my drink!!! or i'll change my name to wildeonebasher!

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Wildeone

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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2008, 13:55 »
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


 

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