[coop-de-tat]

Stripped my mothers apple tree the other day.

I steeped them in a 25l bucket and followed a very similar recipe to Capt. 0......except I added 1/2 cup of tea and no pectic enzyme (should I add this? Is it absolutely necessary?) Also I didn't add yeast nutrient (I don't have any but may buy some)

After a few days I removed the apples then I topped up using boiled water, added the raisins, a dash of lemon juice, the tea and 6kg of sugar. The must is cooling right now in the bedroom :=] I've got a yeast starter bubbling nicely ready for when the must is at the right temp (about 23C)

I have been told that the primary fermentation should be allowed to proceed in the presence of air for the first few days. Does this mean I leave the lid off the must or just  loose? Or do I use a bubbler airlock straight away?

TIA for any advice. Salut!

CdT

[Capt Zero]

Yeast nutrient is a big help when it comes to yeast. It keeps the yeast strong & fit, works on the yeast cell itself, if you have any vitamin B tablets throw one of them in. Don't leave it to long before you add the starter, you need to build up a layer of Co2 on top of the must to protect it from any baddies.....yes yeast does need air in the first few days (that's were a good shake up of the DJ comes in.) but get an airlock in asap. Do you have an hydrometer?? and have you tested the SG yet?? 

[coop-de-tat]

Thanks Capt..............

Yes I did take a hydro reading it was 1.115.

I added the yeast starter yesterday morning. It doesn't seem to be fermenting as vigorously as I'd like so I've moved the FV closer to a radiator (much to the chagrin of my Mrs) ;-]

The thermo sticker reading on the side of the FV indicates 18-20C so hopefully I can raise it a few degrees and get my sweet baby going properly. If not I've got a heating tray or two somewhere I'll dig those out and use them, they should kick it up a notch.

CdT

[Capt Zero]

Well done...

1..Don't trust the stick on thermo's,
2..1.115 is a little high for some yeasts to start off with, which one did you use??? don't fret too much about a slow start, it's better for the yeast  less stress.
3..If you have any Pectolase add it...it can't do any harm, and you'll finish up with a clear wine.
Cheers

[coop-de-tat]

Thanks for the advice CZ...you're da man !

Bought a temperature probe from Amazon it arrived yesterday. I tested the must earlier, it showed a little over 22C. I'm quite happy with that now.

Took another hydro reading as well, it's now: (just under) 1.110 :-]

The yeast was from Wilkinsons (I think the brand was Gervin Universal)  I've already ordered more yeast from Amazon just in case (VinClasse High Alcohol)

I'll get hold of some pecto and add it asap.

I had a little crisis earlier, I was sorting out the airlock and accidentally pushed the rubber grommet through the FV lid into the must :=[ I had a search for it with a spoon but couldn't find the booger. The FV is a Ballyhoo type 25l  bin with a small diameter rubber grommet I don't have a replacement so in my great wisdom I decided to drill out a larger diameter hole to accommodate an ordinary red rubber airlock bung. Long story short, I made a right hamfist of it resulting in a knackered lid. I have had to replace the lid with another from a spare storage bucket which fits great but no airlock. I not going to try and drill out again so have ordered another lid and grommet set from Ballyhoo. PHEW.

CdT

[Capt Zero]

Keep your spare lid on, even with no airlock. All that will happen the Co2 will find a way out as most lids are not air tight. Some brewers won't use the airlocks at all, just snap the lid on, I had to do it on one of my FV, the lid popped  up so I just cracked the lid pushed it flat and snapped it shut.

1.110 is looking good, shows that it's working away. Gervin is a very good yeast I use it a lot.

shame about the lid can't you take a square of plastic, make a seal out of a silicone baking sheet, glue onto the lid, when set drill out a small hole for the airlock?

[SCassin]

My neighbour bought round a sack of windfall apples yesterday for my horses - OMG poor horses aren't having them now lol I have 4 empty demijohns at the mo and have just found a use for them    he he excited

[Capt Zero]

Well done you..   shame about the horses tho, maybe buy them a net of carrotts..

[coop-de-tat]

The lid ist kaput Capt.......

I used an old hole saw set I have, when it span up it dug in and split the lid in all directions the lid ended up spinning on the end of my drill like a bizarre plate-balancing show. It's only use now is a garden dog Frisbee :-]

I have a new lid on the way. Ballyhoo aren't cheap but I've learned a lesson here.

I'm thinking of concentrating the wine using the freeze method have you/anyone ever tried this?

CdT

[Capt Zero]

I've read up on it, but never done it myself, some breweries do this to their brews to increase the %.
I love the Trappist beers and have thought about giving it a go, but I can't get a 25lt FV in any of our freezers.   

[coop-de-tat]

I watched a video on YouTube the other night. The guy decanted the finished wine into plastic 3 litre pop bottles leaving a 2-3in space in each for expansion. He froze these then tipped them upside down with the cap removed into a pan and collected the concentrate as it dripped though the water ice at room temp. Looked a bit awkward but seemed effective. He estimated a final alcohol content of about 30% if I remember correctly :-]

I'll have a look for the vid and post it.

(ETA) Here's the vid:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46qPqNirAQ

Apparently all perfectly legal.

CdT

[Capt Zero]

Just watched the vid, he starts off with 9lts of cider and finished up with 2 and a bit.....that's over 6lts down the sink.... do you want to waste that much??

As I understand it, it's a "grey area" with HMRC.

Wiki states the following.....

"Freeze distillation is an analogous method of purification using freezing instead of evaporation. It is not truly distillation, but a recrystallization where the product is the mother liquor, and does not produce products equivalent to distillation. This process is used in the production of ice beer and ice wine to increase ethanol and sugar content, respectively. It is also used to produce applejack. Unlike distillation, freeze distillation concentrates poisonous congeners rather than removing them."

The fact that 'freeze distillation' concentrates the poisons even more would be a very good argument as to why it should/is/would be also illegal.

Have a go by all means just be careful.

[coop-de-tat]

I believe this is a very interesting subject but I think we might be at risk of derailing your good thread CZ.

Perhaps some good mod can split the last couple of posts to a new thread where we can discuss the freeze subject. Maybe there's an existing thread about it somewhere?

CdT

[Capt Zero]

It's ok with me, threads start with a topic but they cross over on to other things, it's natural we're only human.
If a mod wants to start another thread....fine...at least we posting and that's what counts.

[coop-de-tat]

OK :=]

The stuff that goes down the sink would be mostly water. The freeze process should retain the main "goodness" of the brew. And of course all the "poisons" that may be present

So I can see the validity in the opinion that the poisons may be concentrated in the end-product.  The main counter argument I have seen to that is that if you drank the pre-frozen brew you would consume the same amount of unwanted poisons anyway. Of course, as applejack, you may be consuming it over a shorter period of time, having a lesser volume to drink.

CdT