Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Eating and Drinking => Kitchen Natter => Topic started by: Kate and her Ducks on January 24, 2015, 19:06
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Hi,
Since I got my beautiful goats this summer I have been dabbling in cheese making and it is turning into a serious obsession. :lol: I have even had to buy myself a little wine cooler as a cheese ageing fridge! Loving trying different recipes and styles of cheese.
Anyone else make cheese?
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I had a go at making feta about a year ago but it wasn't very successful. I got a couple of cheese making books but haven't got very far yet.
I am practising smoking techniques at the moment.
Are we going to see pictures of your cheeses? :)They sound wonderful.
Are they soft or hard?
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Three out of six in this house cant do cheese, but I'd love to see some pics of how its all done. ;)
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Will have to get my camera out and take some pictures. :D They are a mixture of soft and hard cheeses. The best one (in my opinion) is my honey and black pepper coated goat cheddar. Do a mean crottin too.
My sister took me on a smoking course for my birthday which was wonderful. Haven't had a chance to do as much as I would like but panning to make a cold smoker this year and then there'll be no stopping me!
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Three out of six in this house cant do cheese, but I'd love to see some pics of how its all done. ;)
Sorry, that came while I was still typing (will get quicker one day! ::)). A life without cheese must be miserable but then there are people who survive without chocolate so it must be possible!
Going to make a cheese tomorrow so will take some pics as I go along and post them. Actually the making of the cheese seems to be the easier bit. Its the getting it to age properly without going a bit funny (quite a few when to the pigs when I first started but luckily I seem to be getting better as the pigs are in the freezer!). Cheese is a bit like having another pet; it's a living thing that needs care and attention and if you mistreat it, dies, or worse tries to kill you - mainly with the smell! :lol:
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Three out of six in this house cant do cheese, but I'd love to see some pics of how its all done. ;)
Sorry, that came while I was still typing (will get quicker one day! ::)). A life without cheese must be miserable but then there are people who survive without chocolate so it must be possible!
Going to make a cheese tomorrow so will take some pics as I go along and post them. Actually the making of the cheese seems to be the easier bit. Its the getting it to age properly without going a bit funny (quite a few when to the pigs when I first started but luckily I seem to be getting better as the pigs are in the freezer!). Cheese is a bit like having another pet; it's a living thing that needs care and attention and if you mistreat it, dies, or worse tries to kill you - mainly with the smell! :lol:
When it makes you vomit non stop for hours on ends and makes you itch like you have fleas you dont mine missing it LOL hubby used to eat a lot of cheese but he doesnt worry much now. Wonder whether he just worries about the cross contamination issue.
My oldest son used to love stilton when he was little. He once asked at a grand age of five if the cheese board came with stilton, the waitress said it did but they could change it for a kid friendly cheese. The look of disgust told her he was not impressed. ;)
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Yes, can't imagine that one missed something that make you so ill.
I do love the story of your son and his loving of stilton, clearly a young man of taste!
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Is Goats cheese as bad as cows cheese, BQ?
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Is Goats cheese as bad as cows cheese, BQ?
Its something in the cheese, I can have cows milk in tea and on cereal, yoghurts make me feel rough too. Never been tested just stayed away after I had throat swelling and hives. The kids dietician did name something she thought it was but I didnt take any notice.
The kids take priority I can happily avoid the yellow stuff. The smell makes me come over queer I went for a look around a cheese factory ( just a look) with our older kids, I didnt get past the first room without feeling so ill. ::)
I would love to see how its made though and maybe one day work out what doesnt like me. ;)
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I love cheese but it is strange stuff, a friend of mine pours with sweat when he eats any type of it - no other symptoms except a sweat which is confined to his face! Weird!!
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Cheese is amazing stuff. It wasn't till I started making it that I had the slightest idea. It really is a living thing that comes into being, reaches maturity and then ages into decay like the rest of us!
Funny the reactions some people have. The most common allergies people have are to lactulose which for most people is just a sensitivity and probably quite over diagnosed, and cow milk protein allergy which unfortunately have a high level of cross reactivity with the proteins in goat and sheep milk! ::)
There must be other aspects as well for people like you BQ who can tolerate milk but react to it when processed.!
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I made quite a bit at one time with milk from a neighbour, but mainly feta style and ricotta. But the local sirene (feta style) is only 6 leva a kilo, just over 2 quid, and as I had so much else on and no wine fridge it petered out. Would like to have another bash, but can't afford the cooler. We considered getting goats but they are not cost effective.
Great that you persevered though, would love to taste but alas. too far away. :lol:
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We got a halloumi kit for That Event in December, would love to see how you make your cheeses.
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We got a halloumi kit for That Event in December, would love to see how you make your cheeses.
I saw those kits and nearly bought one for my SIL, but wondered how good it was... ended up buying him a smoker to use outside.
Love to know how you get on with it please, Surbie
and looking forward to your series of photos Kate. :D
I only made stuff like paneer, which doesn't need aging.
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I saw those kits and nearly bought one for my SIL, but wondered how good it was... ended up buying him a smoker to use outside.
Love to know how you get on with it please, Surbie
Will let you know - it would help if OH didn't keep drinking the milk I buy to make it with... ::)
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I saw those kits and nearly bought one for my SIL, but wondered how good it was... ended up buying him a smoker to use outside.
Love to know how you get on with it please, Surbie
Will let you know - it would help if OH didn't keep drinking the milk I buy to make it with... ::)
:lol:
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I'm also allergic to cheese. It makes me drink loads of red wine or port. Very strange.
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I'm also allergic to cheese. It makes me drink loads of red wine or port. Very strange.
:lol:
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OK, so this is the steps for the cheese I am making this afternoon. Will take photos as I go along.
Step 1.
First milk your goat!
This is Rosie who is my best milker and a lovely, lovely goat. She is also herd Queen.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuxrd3eni.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuxrd3eni.jpg.html)
If I need a lot of milk for a big cheese I save up over a few days and freeze it if longer than a couple of days (or if I am too busy).
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Step 2.
Heat the milk to required temperature. Because todays cheese can be eaten young I tend to pasteurise the milk first (and one of my friends who has cheese off me is pregnant so she can still eat it).
Once at temp the starter culture is added and left for an hour (can be longer or shorter depending on the cheese)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdki8gqlu.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdki8gqlu.jpg.html)
Step 3.
Once the milk has ripened the rennet is added and the milk is left to set.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsz83ixsya.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsz83ixsya.jpg.html)
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Step 4.
Once the milk has achieved a "clean break" -
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqinvz9u7.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsqinvz9u7.jpg.html)
It's cut into 1cm cubes. Not sure how well this shows on the pic but here goes.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswxj4m5xz.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswxj4m5xz.jpg.html)
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Step 5.
The curds are then gradually heated over 40 mins while stirring. This means that more whey (liquid) is expelled from the curds (solids) which shrink down and become firmer.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjy39fpiu.jpg)
[/URL[URL=http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsnhdoi0nk.jpg.html](http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsnhdoi0nk.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjy39fpiu.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpskduhlbjc.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpskduhlbjc.jpg.html)
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This is really fascinating!!!
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The curds are then allowed to settle to the bottom of the pan. The whey is then decanted off the top to expose the curds. I put mine into another big pan to make ricotta (more on that later).
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8afaku6s.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8afaku6s.jpg.html)
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The curds are then stirred for 20 mins at the same temp until they start to clump together when squeezed in your hand. Once they have started to do this they are strained through muslin (I try and save this whey too) and salt is added.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsq0uq09bf.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsq0uq09bf.jpg.html)
The curds are then put into a perforated mould lined with more muslin with a follower (lid) on top. This means that I can then put it into the press (or just put weights on top) to express more of the whey and form the smooth paste (interior) of the cheese.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpslnyzyxnx.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpslnyzyxnx.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps58magnyn.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps58magnyn.jpg.html)
(Please ignore the mess in the background!)
The funny thing is the composition of the milk changes with the seasons. I had read that the butterfat content increases in the winter but didn't really realise by how much. I can see tiny droplets of fat on the surface that I could never see in summer and using the same amount of milk as would about 3/4 fill this mould with curds now fills it to overbrimming! They do however produce much less milk in the winter Based on my very limited experience of 2 goats over 8 months! ::)).
I flip the cheese and redress with muslin after an hour or so and then the cheese will be pressed overnight.
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And on to the ricotta.
As all the books say, As everyone knows, ricotta means cooked again, which always makes me feel a bit inferior as I didn't know that! But it does! And the recooking is of the whey.
The whey is then reheated and the whey proteins (apparently very good for you!) are precipitated out of solution and can be scooped off.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswvufh3w1.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswvufh3w1.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpszjpfjbvb.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpszjpfjbvb.jpg.html)
So two cheeses for the price of one! Or three if you then do something else with the ricotta.
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How fascinating Kate, thank you for taking the time to share. How long does it all take from beginning to end? It must take some planning to ensure you can go through all the stages in between working & life etc. I've been to Hawes & round the cheese 'factory' there but I certainly didn't get the feel for it that that has given me :)
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Thank you Kate, good photos and very interesting. I have made cottage cheese, and once made proper cheese, but I didn't have the equipment, so didn't take it further.
How do you make your starter culture?
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I just wanted to say a very heartfelt "Thank You" for sharing this with us. I haven't posted anything up to now as I was learning from this simply brilliant thread. I suspect there's rather a lot of 'lurkers', both guests and members, who have also enjoyed this process; I'm certainly inspired to have a go myself!
Thank you, Kate! Please do continue!
(And we love the photos!)
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Oh wow! That was incredible interesting. Thank you for sharing. Can't wait to see the finished cheese.
I wonder if Mr Bee will let me have a goat............
I didn't see any mess in the background, just useful equipment. ;)
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Since when did Mrs Bee ever need permission? :lol: :D
Besides - it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.... :lol:
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As a non cheese eater I really enjoyed it too. Thanks Kate
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Thanks for the comments :D
This morning before work I removed it from the muslin and press and put it into a vat of heavy brine. For some reason those pics wouldn't load and I now can't find them but will try and find where they went. This evening it will come out of the brine and then dry at room temperature overnight.
From start to finish (eating) will take a couple of months but most of that is ageing which is just flipping it over in the fridge every couple of days. In terms of actual work making it it is done over 2 days and most of the attention is on the first day. Some cheeses are pretty quick and easy. Some take more attention and this is a bit more involved than most of the ones I do.
As to the goat Mrs Bee, just remember you need at least 2! ;)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/IMG_0645_zpsa255567d.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/IMG_0645_zpsa255567d.jpg.html)
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How do you make your starter culture?
Bumping this just in case you missed it! :nowink:
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Oops sorry I knew there would be something I forgot!.
I buy my starter cultures but the main one I use for most of my cheese you buy, add to milk and incubate. I then pour it into ice cube trays and then you can just take out what you need when you need it. When you get to the end of them you just add one to more milk, incubate and repeat. Eventually you will get impurities etc and will have to start again. Not all cultures can be incubated on so some I buy as I need, especially things like the mould for making blue cheese etc.
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Thanks for all this Kate. It is incredibly interesting and you set it all out so clearly :D :D
I can see parallels with making paneer, but your product must last much longer
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Thanks Kate. I used sour milk, and I would imagine it would be quite easy to get stray cultures developing in milk left to go sour on the back of the bench at home. :nowink:
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Yes, there are also lots of bacteria in raw milk that can be both beneficial and harmful but generally unpredictable.
And I have to separate cheese making and bread baking by at least a day as the yeasts can contaminate the milk, make it holey and affect the flavour. I don't bake very often since I started cheese making but the bread thread is making me really miss making my own!
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I can see parallels with making paneer, but your product must last much longer
I did make paneer when I first started, it was one of my first cheeses. It didn't turn out too well and the OH congratulated me on making the goat version of tofu! Think I am getting gradually better. I started with a great book called Making Artisan Cheese at Home by Mary Karlin. It starts with nice easy recipes and moves through to intermediate and more advanced cheeses.
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Here's the missing pictures.
Undressing the cheese.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpssb5koc8a.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpssb5koc8a.jpg.html)
Brining the cheese.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpss3ropzm1.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpss3ropzm1.jpg.html)
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Amazing
Brilliant job, I have to ask will you be sharing that huge block of cheese or will you eat all of that. :ohmy:
I am used to cheese in a tiny block for the older kids
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It's fascinsting! And has made me think about yet another area of food I could one day experiment with (along with sausage making and smoking). How long would a huge cheese like that last?
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It's one of those funny things. Kept complete it will keep and mature for months but once broken into it starts going off, well at least stops improving very quickly so needs eating up.
If my family and neighbours don't eat it, it lasts about 3 minutes in the coffee room at work. :tongue2:
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Do you or are you able to sell it Kate? I should imagine there are a whole raft of legislations if you do sell. It looks lovely, how long will you refrigerate it in your wine cooler before cutting in to it?
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Since when did Mrs Bee ever need permission? :lol: :D
Besides - it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.... :lol:
Correct, I don't need permission, but ours is a relationship in which we discuss everything and both have to be happy with our decisions.
I have only just got him to come round to the idea of chickens for meat.
Kate, I think 2 goats would be too much for our garden. :( My great grandmother got one goat for the milk but love her the she turned out to be a he. :lol: :lol: So they kept it as a pet.
However, you have started a truly inspiring thread here. And I am becoming more motivated to have another go.
Especially as I have the smoking well under my belt. Got some brisket in the fridge for salt beef and pastrami and am considering trying some air drying.
Now my own homemade cheese popped in the smoker.......... Mr Bee wouldn't be upset about that so long as I buy the milk.
Your cheese looks simply amazing.
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...ours is a relationship in which we discuss everything and both have to be happy with our decisions.
That sounds like my wife - she tells me I'm happy with her decision! :lol:
I'm betting I have a go at cheese-making some time this year; I can't wait!
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Kate, those cheeses look just amazing. You're definitely getting me thinking it's something I could do small scale.
Though I'd buy the milk - you can't keep goats on half a north-facing balcony! :D
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Kate, those cheeses look just amazing. You're definitely getting me thinking it's something I could do small scale.
Though I'd buy the milk - you can't keep goats on half a north-facing balcony! :D
You could try. :lol: :lol: :lol: ::)
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I certainly do think that it is something that can be done small scale. I'm the proof!
If you do decide to have a go with goats milk really try to find someone you can buy fresh milk from, the stuff you buy in the supermarket is foul! And at £1.60/l pretty expensive. It takes about a gallon of milk to make a pound of cheese!
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We are having baked potatoes with ricotta for tea and there will still be loads of ricotta left so I am making the rest into ricotta salata so it doesn't go to waste. It's dead easy and means 3 cheeses from just the one batch of milk. :D
The ricotta is put into muslin lined moulds and then pressed with a gentle weight (I've popped 3lb on). I'll undress, flip and redress it tomorrow morning and repeat in the evening. It's then rubbed with salt and flipped daily for a few days and then aged in the (normal) fridge for a couple of days to up to 4 weeks. The recipe I have suggests rubbing it with salt on 7 days but I found that far too salty so did it for 2 which wasn't salty enough so am going to go for 4 this time :tongue2:
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjyxsl3km.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjyxsl3km.jpg.html)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm5/katemerriman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpseogbddqe.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/katemerriman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpseogbddqe.jpg.html)
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I wish I liked goats cheese but I can't bear it! :tongue2:
Great photos of the process though Kate :)
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Great thread and the photos make it easy to understand the process. Not sure it's something I will try in the near future but I'm still finding it very interesting to read about. I love all the creative endeavours on this site.