[Chookster]

I just want to clarify something...

a friend of mine owns a fruit and veg shop and does the whole poultry thing. I was saying how lovely it is to see my birds completely free range and eating a healthy varied diet.  When i see them literally run over to me i can see they're all muscle and not (apparently) fat like the farmed birds.  Apparently the cheap chickens are not healthy usually as to the way they're reared, not able to perch, run around etc

ANYWAY... she said are they organic? And i said well, i don't know, i guess so.  And then she said "aaah but do you worm them??" " if you worm them, they're not organic".

hmmmm... what do you think then guys? Is an organic bird one that hasn't been vaccinated or wormed, which has had no chemicals/meds 'added' to it?

[Foxy]

my understanding is that organic poultry farmers do not routinely use antibiotics in their feed (used as growth promoter) or coccistats. They are vaccinated though and if there is a therapeutic need they will be treated, so if worms are suspected it would be appropiate to worm them, however all efforts are made to naturally reduce the worm burden. I would expect that the droppings are routinely analysed to assess level of worm burden to ascertain levels of intervention required.

[joyfull]

not sure but think that the ground that they range on has to be certified by the soil association to be classed as organic amongst other stuff.
Just found the following on the soil associations web site :-
Here are some of organic farming's main features:

■Organic farming prohibits the use of artificial chemical fertilisers and severely restricts the use of pesticide
■Instead, organic farmers rely on developing a healthy, fertile soil and growing a mixture of crops
■Animals are reared without the routine use of drugs, antibiotics and wormers common in intensive livestock farming
The word organic is defined by law. Any food labelled organic must meet a strict set of standards. Look for the Soil Association symbol for your guarantee of the highest organic standards.
Think you may be able to sell your eggs as from free range hens fed on organic feeds but not as organic eggs.

[snowflake]

I was reading this the other day,
VERM-X PELLET herbal chicken /Duck poultry wormer
Verm-X Pellets are ideal for poultry on naturally kept or following organic farming methods
I have read and have used rhubarb leaves as a natural wormer many farmers use it on chickens. cheaper than the above but organic eggs and very expensive.

[Aunt Sally]

Organic methods are not necessarily the best thing for the animals welfare. 

[Chookster]

hmmmm... well free range on organic ground sounds fair. the dig for victory garden hasn't been dug for over a hundred years til i created the garden in january. And i don't use anything to spray the veg in the garden, I do a bit of a Hugh FW and give the caterpillars adn slugs to the chickens as a treat every now and then.  So they're not organic because they've (apparently) been vaccinated by the rearers before i had them but the worming stuff i use means if they were organic in the first place they still would be as it's kind of natural/herbal.

I do see where you're coming from though Aunt Sally. I have to say if one of my birds is poorly I will get it anti biotics or whatever if it needed them.  But it's just interesting this organic thing.  I often wonder why organic this that and the other should be more expensive if 'stuff' is left out of the equation.

Always baffles me.  Perhaps it's because they have to pay Hugh FW to go round collecting the slugs and caterpillars