Making Bread (or Doorstops)

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Raven50

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Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« on: September 15, 2012, 18:04 »
Help! I've been trying to make a decent loaf of bread for months now, and while mostly its edible, it always turns out very heavy and crumb-y. I've tried making it wetter, drier, using fresh yeast, using speedy-yeast, with milk powder and without... you get the idea!
It never, ever turns out like the nice, stretchy bread I see them making on River Cottage and such programmes and I really can't figure out where I.m going wrong. I always knead it for 10 mins or so, but perhaps I'm not doing it right.
Any suggestions are very welcome - which recipe works best for you, and how should the dough look after kneading? How can I tell if it's kneaded enough? That kind of thing,
Thanks  :)
'The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.'
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madcat

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 18:19 »
What flour are you using? 
All we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiastic about (Charles Kingsley)

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Trillium

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 18:40 »
One common problem new breadmakers have is that once they start kneading the dough, they add too much flour to keep it from sticking. The flour addition during kneading should be very minimal, if any, because it doesn't have time to become gluteny like the yeasted part and results in a tougher loaf.

The dough should remain a bit sticky and almost no flour added, maybe 1/4 cup total if truly needed. I've switched to making bread dough like the following video. Although it's for sweet dough, the same technique works for bread dough here.

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Kleftiwallah

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 19:03 »

Try adding some olive oil. :)

Cheers,    Tony.
I may be growing OLD, but I refuse to grow UP !

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mumofstig

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 19:21 »
Good old fashioned lard in the mix gives a good rise, I only found out when DD said to use it - and it works  ;)

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grendel

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 19:30 »
another way is to lightly oil your hands, this will help it not stick to your hands and the surface.
if you are using wholmeal flour, a tiny amount of vitamin c powder will help it rise. always wait until the dough has doubled in size (keep it out of draughts) and let it do that twice (knocking back and re kneading between, before putting it in the tin for the final rise and bake.
Grendel
we do the impossible daily, miracles take a little longer.

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allotmentann

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2012, 08:27 »
I would say the same as Trillium, I now always work the dough as wet as I can possibly manage it (since hearing one of the TV chefs talking about it) :)

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PAULW

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 19:36 »
Some of the chef's say when kneeded properly you should be able to make windows in the dough, stretch the dough so it gets so thin you can see through it without it breaking, the other thing is are you proving the loaf for long enough both in the first raising and after knocking back, keep trying you will drop on it it one day and wonder what all the fuss was about.

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jay001

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 03:17 »

Try adding some olive oil. :)

Cheers,    Tony.

as some of you know from earlier on in the year i was doing all my bread baking by hand untill a lengthy thread on here lasting several day,s started by grendel if stroke brain is getting it right  :D prompted me to invest in a bread maker- - - as recomended by nearly all who took part in the discusion,would never go back now to hand baking ( health wouldnt allow me the pleasure of the kneeding process now anyway ) and i have not had a dissapointment yet ( there i go with my big mouth again  ::) ) i never have used butter either by hand or bread maker allways olive oil and i trained under a german chef that swore it makes for a lighter loaf. the conversion i have allways used is if they state the butter amount in ozs which some of the old school cook books do, convert it to grms and then convert the grms to mls- - - - it sounds complicated but it is not i promise  ;) for example for every one oz of butter required, that = 25grm and that in turn = the same no in mls ie = 25 mls of olive oil or veg oil i have used when olive has ran out and still got exellent results all you need ( no pun intended  ::) ) is a set of mls measuring cups and they are cheap enough !!! ---- this method should help you --- i hope so anyway cos as the other,s on the site will tell you --- it,s not very often i acctually bother being super serious with my posts,i,m very much a toungue in cheek man and that,s what keeps my determination and strength up to enjoy life to the full!! give it a try i think you will be mildly suprised,and as someone else said on here it dosn,t happen over night, pattisiere side of a comercial kitchen is one of the hardest and most difficult to master it takes years !!
good look
jay  8)
Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance

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Mrs Bee

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2012, 12:22 »
As Jay said a lot of us had a good discussion about the merits of bread makers.

I have made my own bread for 35 years, never a purist as I used my kenwood and a dough hook, but have been totally  won over with bread machines even if I just want the dough.

I started making bread soon after I was married, and I bought the Sunday times book of real bread and there was a recipe for wholemeal bread by a Doris Grant, who devised a recipe which would give you a good loaf without it being a doorstop. Good whole meal bread is always going to be heavier than mass produced ones because of the bran and lack of chemicals but it is far higher in B vitamins.
It was the everyday recipe I used for many years.
This recipe only has one rising.

The recipe is....
3lb stoneground wholemeal bread flour

the starter
1 oz fresh or 3 tsp dried yeast
2 rounded tsps honey or treacle

and 2pt lukewarm water
2 scant tsp salt

Although not in the recipe I added 2-3 tabs oil

mix the fresh yeast with the honey/treacle
add 1/4 pt of the water which should be at 35-38C
Leave for 10 minutes to froth up

if using dried use 3 tabsof water and add 3 tsps honey or treacle.

Mix flour and salt ( in cold weather warm the flour slightly).
Add the yeast and remaining water and oil if using, and knead until stretchy and elastic. I always cheated and used the Kenwood.

Divide the dough between3 x2 pt greased tins
Cover with a clean cloth and put in a warm place for for about 20 mins until the dough is within 15mm from the top of the tins.

Bake in a preheated oven for about 35 -40 mins
 There was also the Ballymaloe brown bread recipe that I used which again had only one rising.

For one loaf 1lb wholemeal bread flour
about 10 and 1/2 fl oz warm water, temperature as above
3 tsps black treacle
2 tsp salt
1oz fresh yeast or half a tsp dried.
Same method as above but his time cook at 230C gas 8 for about 45 minutes

Both methods recommend warming the flour in a cool oven before mixing.


I hope that this may be of some use to you.

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shokkyy

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Re: Making Bread (or Doorstops)
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2012, 14:05 »
I always use a bread machine to make the dough too. I don't much like bread that's been baked in a bread machine, because it comes out an odd shape with a hole in the bottom and it just doesn't taste like proper bread. I use the machine to make the dough, then bake it in my oven.



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