Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Chatting => Equipment Shed => Topic started by: philskin on June 06, 2009, 10:51
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just been to pick up a rotavator from a couple of freecycle hasnt been used for a couple of years due to there new garden having a sub surface watering system .Can anyone tell me something about the machine please ,i think its a qualcast wizard thanks phil :D
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wow lucky you :D
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The Wizard, the cadet, ect are all baby merytillers. Good little machine one of the best balanced I ever had.
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The Wizard, the cadet, ect are all baby merytillers. Good little machine one of the best balanced I ever had.
cheers bigbadfrankie looks in pretty fair con , love to see a pic of one thats mint ,so i know what colour to paint it etc
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Hello,
Wizard was a range name used by Webb...it included a small tiller, green chassis with white B&S 3hp? engine. The mowers in the range were basically the pressed steel Webbs of the day in a lighter/brighter green, white engines and white grassboxes. This was long before Qualcast owned Webb.
The tiller chassis was later used in red as the Merry Tiller Cadet. It also gained folding handles later on which made it excellent for loading into a car...and had optional add on covers over the rotors. We had a Cadet on hire for a while and it was a very useful machine..
Once in Qualcast ownership (1984?) the Cadet chassis was used as The Qualcast Cultimatic B66 in a darker green than its Wizard days...using the Qualcast/Atco A114 engine instead of B&S of the Wizard/Cadet.
All the best,
"Dori"
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(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/Spilsby/CultimaticB66.jpg)
Above is the tiller I refer to...in its final years as The Qualcast Cultimatic B66. (There was an earlier use of the Cultimatic name by Qualcast on a totally different range of tillers)
Thinking back in its first days, in the Webb Wizard range, the green was then perhaps similar to John Deere green.?..
Are you able to post up a photo of your "new" machine.??
"Dori"
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Hello philskin
As Bigbadfrankie wrote, the Wizard is a rebadged Merry Tiller. The 3hp Briggs & Stratton engined Webb Wizard was made along with the identical early Merry Tiller Cadet from about 1976 to 83. It was replaced with the Qualcast B66 model which was similar except that it had a Qualcast engine and adjustable handlebars. This model seems to have been dropped about 1990.There was also a short lived 5hp Wizard which looked the same as the 3hp model but had a much stronger chassis and rear skid. The point where the skid bracket fixes onto the chain case and chassis is a bit weak on the Wizard/Cadet so check that the mounting bolts are tight and all spacers etc are present.
I am not too keen on the single transport wheel which does not like going over grass, but in the soil it is an excellent machine, lightweight yet strong enough to turn an existing plot over without digging first.
There is a tiny picture of a Wizard on the spares page 3 of my website. The belt guard and engine were white, rotors and skid black, and the rest green. Qualcast B66 models had black guards but the engines and frames came in several colours.
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cheers r tallantire heres a few pics for you all
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/Image7-1.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/Image3.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/Image8-1.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/Image9-1.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/Image5-1.jpg)
there is also the guard for the side in white and the original tools that came with it and manual
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Hello,
Thank you for posting up the photos...it is the Webb Wizard 3hp... but I'm sure you will spot the likeness to the later Qualcast B66..
I'm sure the paint colour on your tiller will be the original..
Just wondering.?...do you have the depth skid.??..as it's not shown in the photos
"Dori"
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heres some pics of the guard and tools plus the manual and skid
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/12.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/16.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/14.jpg)
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...engine tools for holding flywheel and undoing starter clutch too. :)
"Dori"
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i think that i got a good little machine here then :D :D :D
going to start stripping it next week ??? ???
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You have got yourself a nice little prodject there.The tines look OK.
celery :)
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spent the afternoon getting spark on the plug its not brilliant but its there , ive now taken the engine of the frame and started to clean the frame up .Took a bit of working out how to use the flywheel tools but got there in the end , beware you talented people will be pestering you for info soon ,question 1 whats the best thing to get the oil of ready for painting ie petrol thinners gunk cheers phil
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White spirit
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White spirit
thanks frankie
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Hello heres question 2 ive stripped her down taken of the tines and started to clean everything up ,now i need to take of the pulley there is a large nut right at the back of the pulley i guess i grip this and turn the pulley ,now is it a left hand thread or right handed and am i right that this is the way to take it of or do i need to split the gearbox casing thanks phil
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/3.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/2.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/020209.jpg)
heres the info on it if any one is interested
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/4.jpg)
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its ok ive worked it out there was a pin in the middle of the nut knocked it out and pulley pulled of :D :D :D
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jumping the gun a bit here ,but when the engine has been sprayed i will need some decals the only ones i can find are on the canadian ebay ,does anyone know anywere in this country i could get them ie briggs and stratton 3hp decals
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Can't help on the decals Phil, but out of curiosity, where were the previous owners keeping the rotovator? Under a slow acid drip? The finish is in very rough shape.
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Can't help on the decals Phil, but out of curiosity, where were the previous owners keeping the rotovator? Under a slow acid drip? The finish is in very rough shape.
outside under a sheet , but hopefully she will be looking healthy again soon
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One of this groups members runs a decal making business, his website is http://www.machinerydecals.co.uk/ I don’t know if he has the mid 1970s B & S transfers though.
Have you got the belt guide? This doubles as the front guard mounting bracket and is a really complex piece of tinware. The clutch won’t disengage properly without it.
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One of this groups members runs a decal making business, his website is http://www.machinerydecals.co.uk/ I don’t know if he has the mid 1970s B & S transfers though.
Have you got the belt guide? This doubles as the front guard mounting bracket and is a really complex piece of tinware. The clutch won’t disengage properly without it.
unless its a part of the cover then no i havent will have a look see later
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ive found the part you mentioned its still attached to the cover its been snapped of the engine so will have to fix it ,rest of the rotavater has been rust treated rubbed down and primed ready for its topcoat
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/coat.jpg)
doesnt look much like a rotavator now does it
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/guards.jpg)
stone guards whatever there called plus bracket for wheel
and the bracket pic for r tallantire ,you can see the lugs have been snapped of
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/bracket.jpg)
I also had to weld the angle iron were the wheel assembly bolts on to the chassis this had split
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got the top coat on now ,what do you think ?
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/side.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/Image10-1.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/out.jpg)
think im getting there slowly
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think the speed your going is rather impressive myself :D
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think the speed your going is rather impressive myself :D
thanks but once it gets to painting the engine that will slow me down
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What a great project to be working on, keep at it and keep posting the pics :D
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Wanna job? ;)
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What a great project to be working on, keep at it and keep posting the pics :D
thanks chris as long has you lot dont mind me boring you with the pics
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Wanna job? ;)
thanks gwiz what are the holidays like :) im hoping that it turns out half decent ,if it does i will try and find another restoration project and maybe take them around to village shows etc . Gwiz could i please ask you what age is this machine it hasnt got any engine numbers so cant use that one website that tells you when its made i was assuming late 60s or am i way off
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I can't say for sure. I'd guess about the same as you, maybe going into the 70's.
Mr Tallentire would be the best bet for a date.
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I can't say for sure. I'd guess about the same as you, maybe going into the 70's.
Mr Tallentire would be the best bet for a date.
cheers gwiz :) :) anyway what you doing up so early on your day of
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I can't say for sure. I'd guess about the same as you, maybe going into the 70's.
Mr Tallentire would be the best bet for a date.
cheers gwiz :) :) anyway what you doing up so early on your day of
Must be something in the air hahahah
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Hello Phil,
My age guess would be mid to late 1970s.??
The engine numbers Model, Type, Code will be stamped into the engine starter cowling tinwork unless the cowling has been replaced in its past history when there was a sticker supplied for transfer of numbers...or if another engines cowling has been fitted then they may/will be erroneous
The cowling on your engine looks original?? ..and the numbers will often be on the flat vertical side that faces the air filter..often hidden in rusting or covered with later paint..and perhaps needing paper and pencil tracing to help decipher...but they should be there....
The Code numbers will give the day of manufacture of the engine...which will at least give a clue to machine age...
All the best,
"Dori"
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thanks dori would love to know its age :) :) :)
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right very wise people GWIZ DORRI i need your super intelligence ive mounted the engine on my bench
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/cd.jpg)
changed the oil and drained the old fuel after about 10 pulls she wouldnt start so poured a little bit in the carb 2 pulls later she started ran for a little while and stopped sprayed some wd40 in the carb and she started again but wouldnt run smoothly
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/xc.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/sd.jpg)
now on munties link about b and s engines it says to take out the screw on float chamber and blow through but i cant find one and the main question is were is the choke and lastly call me thick ,we are used to it in shropshire as the poem goes shropshire bred strong in the arm thick in the head lol but the push pull switch on the carb is it out for fuel on or in or is that the choke if so is it out for choke on or in ,hope to hear from you soon im getting excited now sad isnt it :) :) :)
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I see it is rather rusty at the side of the engine number sticker where the numbers will be stamped..so perhaps the numbers will have vanished in the oxide.??..
This link shows some similar info to your engine ref operation... http://www.allotment-garden.org/assets/rotovator/briggs-stratton-80200-81299.pdf
The choke device is pulled back (out) for choke, for starting, or intial firing, and pushed in for run...you will see it close off the air aperture when pulled out.
You carb does not have a float..it has a diaphragm pump that lifts fuel from the tank into a chamber within fuel tank top from which fuel for running is drawn..this chambers fuel level is maintained constantly during running as fuel overflows back into the the tank...fuel mixture is metered by alloy screw and its seat on carb side in relation with high and low speed internal passages.
Ref engine bolted to shed bench...always run engines outside never in a shed...exhaust fumes and all that..and consider how to stop engine if it does run ;) also spinning crank/pulley extension ref loose clothing...
and from photo...weak mix loose carbon exhaust sparks onto white spirit bottles sacking etc. ;)
You would need to replicate what the machine throttle cable does in holding throttle arm open for run and also be able to push throttle forward to Stop...
Attempting a run without good air filter in place will slightly weaken fuel mixture..and may affect start and pick up to good run.. and I should add that the rubber pipe elbow should be fitted back too..it is the breather pipe from valve chest..
I am always a worrier :blush:…….. not trying to dampen enthusiasm..
Take care,
all the best,
"Dori"
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thanks mate your a star :)
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going to start putting her back together today ,hope i havent lost me bits of paper with my drawings on oh err could end up as a lawnmower lol :D :D :D :( :( :(
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she is coming back together now looking forward to finishing her
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/b.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/bg.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/bnh.jpg)
have i made a decent job so far :) :) :) :)
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right she,s back together again now ,just a few dirty finger marks to get off and try to make some new ends for the guard mount belt guide bracket thingy ma bob
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/d2.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/d1.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/d3.jpg)
just got to sort out the decals now and thats it
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you do realise that now it's so clean and new looking you won't want to use it and get it dirty :D
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you do realise that now it's so clean and new looking you won't want to use it and get it dirty :D
i was thinking exactly the same thing myself ,shall i just make a glass case for it and call it my tribute to allotment .org
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:lol: :lol:
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The black bolts are were i believe the guide fits on
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/g5.jpg)
this is how i think it goes ,or is this pinching the belt to much
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/g2.jpg)
on this one when you pull the lever it just jams the belt into the guide
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/g3.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/g1.jpg)
and here you can see the bolts just dont line up ,but the problem is untill i get the parts book i dont know how much of the guide is missing thanks for looking help please its doing my head in :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
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Hello Phil, The second photo doesn't look right with the belt over the middle bit....looks better in the 3rd photo.??...
Could it be that the belt is a wrong un?? Does it look a bit long?? I wonder if that was a past attempt to get it to come out of drive without the guide....the operating manual being anotated with belt numbers and Qualcat ref perhaps suggests that a troubled belt search has taken place in the past.??
Perhaps a pm to Richard T may be a way forward.?? He is the MT guru busy amasing info in support of MT www.merrytiller.co.uk
Hopefully the manual you have found will provide the answers too :)
All the best,
"Dori"
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thanks for that ive been wondering about the belt ,my sanity ,why do we exist oh god ,hurry up and arrive manual :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
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Restoration projects tend to go a bit like this...just when all is sailing along.....it matters not whether it is in this scene or another....ask the NRM about how they are doing with the Flying Scotsman locomotive....or the battles that the Avro Vulcan team have had.... ;)
Meanwhile, I have been pondering over a tell tale wear line in the crankcase side that is visible in the first photo..??
"Dori" ...on here. ;)
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Meanwhile, I have been pondering over a tell tale wear line in the crankcase side that is visible in the first photo..??
"Dori" ...on here. Wink
what do you mean could that be done by the position of the belt or do you meam theres problems with the engine ? :( :(
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Oops, no....I had best try to explain
In puzzling out what went where etc I noticed that there is a slight worn? line in the crankcase side running horizontal forward from about level with the back dowel peg....I did not mean I had spotted any nasty damage...I just was thinking that this had been caused quite naturally in service by the chatter of a bracket fitting and was trying to use this as a reference to see how things fitted on...that's all...
.....panic not....hopefully.. :)
"Dori"
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thanks dori had me having kittens there lol :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :D :D :D :ohmy: :ohmy:
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Hello Phil, The second photo doesn't look right with the belt over the middle bit....looks better in the 3rd photo.??...
Could it be that the belt is a wrong un?? Does it look a bit long?? I wonder if that was a past attempt to get it to come out of drive without the guide....the operating manual being anotated with belt numbers and Qualcat ref perhaps suggests that a troubled belt search has taken place in the past.??
Perhaps a pm to Richard T may be a way forward.?? He is the MT guru busy amasing info in support of MT www.merrytiller.co.uk
Hopefully the manual you have found will provide the answers too :)
All the best,
"Dori" Ditto all of the above Phil.
Also ditto regarding the belt. It does sound like it's too long........
Ah, and sorry about the delay getting back to you, It's been very busy around here for the past few days!! :blink:
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Hello Phil, The second photo doesn't look right with the belt over the middle bit....looks better in the 3rd photo.??...
Could it be that the belt is a wrong un?? Does it look a bit long?? I wonder if that was a past attempt to get it to come out of drive without the guide....the operating manual being anotated with belt numbers and Qualcat ref perhaps suggests that a troubled belt search has taken place in the past.??
Perhaps a pm to Richard T may be a way forward.?? He is the MT guru busy amasing info in support of MT www.merrytiller.co.uk
Hopefully the manual you have found will provide the answers too :)
All the best,
"Dori" Ditto all of the above Phil.
Also ditto regarding the belt. It does sound like it's too long........
Ah, and sorry about the delay getting back to you, It's been very busy around here for the past few days!! :blink:
hope youve been busy in the garden graham ,not grabbing at work lol
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Now it is my turn to get worried....as everything is arriving in weirdly disjointed Quote mode. :ohmy: :unsure: ;)..
Hello Graham,
I am just not deeply enough familiar with this model other than to fit it in an 'istorical time line in my head :unsure:
...But on a n other forum with another "hat" on I did have a bit of a worry that there may have been an unknown engine or block or crankcase sideplate transplant in some unknown past history.??..my thought there was of the 4 alternative threaded mounting holes that are around some engines side covers..as a location for the guide.??
I then wandered away from that thought to crankcase bolt mounting idea.?..spaced off as is done on some machines...such as on the Little Wonder Edgers... I have even thought since that there may have been another additional bracket.??
I am still unsure but hoping it all comes out ok in the wash when Phil gets the manual... :ohmy: :unsure:
Thinking a bit further Phil....the bracket in an earlier photo was pictured in postion in the cover... With the bracket returned to cover and the whole lot offered up...where does that put the guides position.??
All the best
"Dori"
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I have just sent an email to the chap who gave me the rotovator to check that belt , guide and engine are all as they should be ie original :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
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Meanwhile,....reading on another thread I see that forum member "Big Zook" has a couple of MT Cadets.. http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=39636.0 I wonder if their bracketry is the same.??....and if a photo could be procurred.??
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Meanwhile,....reading on another thread I see that forum member "Big Zook" has a couple of MT Cadets.. http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=39636.0 I wonder if their bracketry is the same.??....and if a photo could be procurred.??
thanks for the link dorri dont know how i missed that ,ive sent zook a pm hopefully may get a clue soon
ive been looking at that wear line and lined the guard up against it and the bottom bolt hole on the engine pic would line up in the lug was still there ,so i might just have to weld an L piece on the top of the bracket to line up with the bolt above things is looking up
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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ALL will be revealed tonite when the wife brings the camera back 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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book arrived this morning and confirmed what i had been feeling ,it was the wrong belt guide . So a little bit of my non engineering skills were called for and seeing as it was the wrong guide i had nothing to lose , so out came the grinder and drill i worked out were it needed to be and started drilling a hole to line it up with the bolt . Took the bolt out and found this now to be to short ,so found a length of threaded bar and re threaded it to suit using tap and die set . then wound the bar tight into the engine using 2 locked nuts and put a nut on it winding it up tight , this then left a stud sticking out to mount the guide on . Once the guide was on i could see how much of the guide i would have to remove ,marked it out and cut it off removing all the rough edges after. Then in the one remaining lug left on the guide i put a nut and bolt to mount the front cover on to .
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/ft8.jpg)
here you can see the piece i cut out and the stud i put in
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/ft7.jpg)
the bolt to fasten cover to
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/ft4.jpg)
the belt on and pinches it together quiet nicely
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/ft3.jpg)
belt in working position just clearing the top and plenty on the bottom
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/ft2.jpg)
cover on and well secured
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/ft10.jpg)
just needs another coat of white paint on engine then a coat of laquer and finally the decals and bobs your auntie didnt we do well ,on the hunt for my next rotavator now
ps the one other good thing about buying the parts guide was that it showed that this was the right way round for the guide and that the chap before was trying to put it on back to front and so had i because thats how i thought it was
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Dear philskin
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You had the guide the right way round before, that’s why it fitted onto the guard in the right place. You must have got a parts book for a 5hp Wizard (model 326) which mounts onto a single large tapped hole in the 5hp engine’s timing cover, and does look to be the opposite way round. The drawing of the guide is the only obvious difference in the parts book, though the 5hp machine has a heavier chassis and skid. Anyway I guess if your modified guide works, that’s all that matters.
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yes thanks for that i didnt bother to read the type of model on the book cover just trusting the supplier ,but the modified version seems to work well so lesson learnt . But most of all i would like to thank everyone on here for there sound good advice ,if it hadnt been for you guys it would of been a non starter
phil
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in case anyone missed the other thread her she is finished and at the local show
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/s8.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/s7.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/philskin/s6.jpg)
the trouble now is she,s to clean to use lol :D :D :D :D :D
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did it win?? :D
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did it win?? :D
no it wasnt a competition ,it was just a section for vintage and old machines, but there was a lot of interest
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just wondered as we restore vintage lorries and motor bikes (although I have now got a 1951 Ford F1 pickup to do) and we show them - we never take part in the judging side though as some people have lots of money to throw at them and others like us have to do it on a budget. I think you've done a smashing job and I bet its previous owners wouldn't recognise it now :D
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Looks great! Have you sent a pic to the kind people who let you have it on Freecycle? I'd be well chuffed to see how it turned out if I had given it to you.
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yes ive been in touch with harry and he was really delighted in fact he asked for it back ,he did have a very polite reply lol :D :D :D :D no he was glad that it had gone to someone who loves old things instead of someone who would just put it on ebay and he said he would keep his eye out for another for me