Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Growing in Greenhouses & Polytunnels => Topic started by: Lardman on May 03, 2015, 15:06
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I've just put the pots in place at the 24" spacing I promised myself last year so as not to over crowd them and it looks so silly you could drive a bus between the plants.
Im tempted to squidge them up a little to 20" spacing and get another plant in. Straw poll - If you're growing in pots what spacing are you using.
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I assume that's 24" between the centres of adjacent plants, rather than 24" between the rims of adjacent pots?
Also, what plants are you growing in them (if tomatoes, bush varieties need a lot more space than cordons, of course?)
Even so, I grow my toms in home-made planters, and the spacing is only about 15" between cordons, 2' between bush types - seems to work without too many problems as long as I'm careful about ventilation, not wetting leaves when watering, etc.
Never tried to grow straw polls so can't comment on spacing for them I'm afraid. ::)
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5 plants down the side of an 8ft greenhouse, is what I do - whether in pots or in the ground.
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Yes - 24" centres, all cordon apart from the rio grande and I'll probably just run that as a double cordon.
I make that around 20" centres MoS, it's the ventilation thing which is bothering me - I seemed to be plagued with botrytis every year, no matter how careful I am.
Never tried to grow straw polls so can't comment on spacing for them I'm afraid. ::)
::) :nowink: You have to pack those in as tight as possible.
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it's the ventilation thing which is bothering me - I seemed to be plagued with botrytis every year, no matter how careful I am.
It's weird, cos I use the same spacing in both greenhouses - I get botrytis in the polycarb but never in the glasshouse :wacko:
The only difference (apart from the obvious) is the auto window in the glasshouse - perhaps I'm not quick enough to open the manual one in the morning :unsure:
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All plants in 12inch pots, 3inch between rims for toms and strict pruning of side shoots and manky leaves.
Solar powered fans for air movement ;)
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Trying mine (Charlottes) in Morrisons flower buckets this year, 1 per bucket. Easy to move around, and I'm going to try lifting the individual plants and taking a few pots from each. :)
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I found reducing the amount of water was the key to beating botrytis. I grew my toms on the ring culture system, so they stood on trays of gravel & I kept them too wet. Plus my new greenhouse has 2 x 3 opening lights each side plus 2 x louvres, so lots of ventilation as they all have automatic openers on them. Mine is 8ft x 10 FT so I have 2 trays each side of the path softly with 3/4 flower buckets in each tray & usually 12 trays in total with a couple of cucumbers along the end
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Sungold and Gardener's Delight all go in 10" pots,four to a tray, so that's 14 along one long wall. We also have long trays along the same wall, but on the outside.
Seems to work, and have always done this layout!
(In this pic, the far end had trays going acrossways, for Mrs Growster's chilli peps)!
I also tucked a few more toms in on the far left, and while they grew well, they were a bit cramped, and when the cucumbers got a bit aggressive, I had to use a machete to get in - and out!
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That's shockingly tidy in there Mr Growster :ohmy:
By the looks and sounds of things you're all cramming things in much closer than I am :wacko: so what gives with the botrytis every year?
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That's shockingly tidy in there Mr Growster :ohmy:
By the looks and sounds of things you're all cramming things in much closer than I am :wacko: so what gives with the botrytis every year?
Too much water :(
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Too much water :(
I could understand me overwatering the pots in the bottom GH but the beds in the top GH are usually dust dry and keeping things watered is a problem.
I have 2 windows and a vent in the bottom GH but I do wonder about forcing some air movement with a fan as I have to keep the door closed because of cats.
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Make a mesh screen to keep them out
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Leave the door open and put wire mesh or netting across to stop the cats ;)
I also remove the top glass triangle at the end of mine :)
snap snowdrops!
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So far, we've never had any botrytis, but humidity is a must in any greenhouse, so we just water the trays, and occasionally syringe the toms!
It was a bit crammed-in last year, and we'll do more planting on 'The Patch', as we still feel that soil-grown toms are tastier than greenhouse ones!
We've now got two auto-vents and anyway, we can open the door at any time if necessary!
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It's strange because, here, I try to avoid moisture in the greenhouse - the slightest sign of humidity and the botrytis starts .
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You've got me worried now, Mum, because every year since we've had a greenhouse, we've gone against the grain, and had both toms and cucumbers in at the same time, and they've always flourished, except when blight struck a few years ago...
I always thought that a nice snug, steamy greenhouse was the best environment for toms, plus a lot of ventilation of course!
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On a side note Medwyn says to treat Botrytis on the plants with with PLJ (lemon juice)
http://www.medwynsofanglesey.co.uk/articles/285/overcoming_botrytis_in_tomatoes
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Other than trying to find the most humid spot in the GH for the cukes (i.e. as far away from the door and opening window as possible, although it probably doesn't make that much difference in a 10X8 GH) I tend to try to favour the toms, if only because there are more of them!
I've had botrytis on the toms 1 year out of the 4 I've had the GH, and although it was fairly late, it wasn't late enough to avoid spoiling some of the crop.
I have read somewhere that pulling leaves off rather than neatly snipping with scissors can help the wounds heal better and therefore reduce the chances of the spores entering the plant - sounds a bit unlikely somehow, but I can't prove it one way or the other, as I tend to have used both 'methods' anyway, and rely on trying to keep the stems and leaves as dry as possible, and ventilation as good as possible.
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One problem with having a few too many toms in the greenhouse, is missing the rogue side-shoots, which rapidly disguise themselves as proper plants...
If they get yanked away, it does seem to give the plant a headache, so I tend to cut these with a Stanley knife - when I find them that is!
Looking at images of botrytis, I reckon we have had some in the past, but I've always put it down to a minimal attack of anything similar, and not worried about it! I'd soon know if it was blight though!
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I plant a double row at two foot spacing in the borders of the poytunnel and ram them in as tight as possible in the greenhouse in buckets (8 plants down each side of the greenhouse). I always get botrytis, but only towards the end of the season (by which I mean October/November) and I've assumed that its caused by the fact that the temperatures have dropped significantly and the plants are stressed anyway.
I do strip the leaves to encourage ventilation and do it with a stanley knife slicing upwards so the leaves don't get ripped off.
Through July and August, I leave both doors open on the polytunnel all day and most nights unless its going to rain.
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Sounds about the same way I do the toms, Headgardener.
The outside ones don't get as much attention, and if there's the odd sideshoot which inevitably gets away, I sometimes encourage it, as there's not really that much to lose if it has a truss forming!
I feel a bruschetta moment coming on..;0)
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Rather late afterthought :closedeyes: - I only use tap water for watering in the greenhouse (and for seedlings) - I can't prove it but I've always suspected that rain water collected in butts must have a high microbe count (including fungal spores) both from the rain itself, its passage over the collection area, and whatever else has possibly found its way into the butts.
Tap water can be 'conditioned' for 24 hours in an open container to allow most of the chlorine to escape.
There are some 'learned articles' on the subject of microbial contamination of collected rain water, but it's usually in the context of places where it's used for drinking water rather than irrigation (synopsis - be thankful we have treated water supplies in the UK, although even tap water isn't guaranteed to be pathogen free!)
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My greenhouse plants are watered with irrigation pipes from a covered butt, but the butt :lol: :lol: is only filled via the hosepipe.
Darn Sarf we rarely get enough Summer rain to do the job :tongue2: (This year may just prove me wrong :wacko: )
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That's an interesting point you make, JayG.
I was taught to use rainwater direct, and 'warm' if possible (i.e. from a sunny water butt), for tender plants. I've never even considered the issues you make, and they're well worth considering! Like most people, I see tap water as full of chemicals, which can't be any good for seedlings - or people for that matter, but maybe you've cracked the code now!
Like Mum, we fill the butts with tap water when they're dry, because they're close to the plants!
Good post you make!
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You're very kind Growster! :blush:
I guess most of us go to at least some trouble to try to make sure our GH's aren't harbouring pests and diseases carried over from the previous season, and use what we hope are sterile pots, compost and so on, but it's very difficult to then avoid providing a microclimate which can be very favourable to the growth of some moulds and fungi, so it just seems like a sensible precaution to avoid the risk of 'seeding' the contents with such pathogens.
I use 'conditioned' tap water to water in the GH when I've remembered to fill the cans, and the hose on 'shower' setting to avoid wetting the tomato leaves when I haven't.
I've got 3 water butts - I use the rain water in them for watering the garden where any microbes would have to compete with all the other naturally occurring ones, and the hazards of surviving outdoors.
(Pretty much certain to get blight and botrytis this year now, aren't I? ::) :lol:)
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That's an interesting point you make, JayG.
I was taught to use rainwater direct, and 'warm' if possible (i.e. from a sunny water butt), for tender plants. I've never even considered the issues you make, and they're well worth considering! Like most people, I see tap water as full of chemicals, which can't be any good for seedlings - or people for that matter, but maybe you've cracked the code now!
Like Mum, we fill the butts with tap water when they're dry, because they're close to the plants!
Good post you make!
Mmmmm - this is very interesting! I was taught via books to use tap water on newly-sown seeds and seedlings to prevent any microbial problems when watering them; however, I strayed from this and just use the water from my rain butt that's attached to a downpipe from the GH and fill two watering cans which I keep in the GH so the water is the same temp as the GH. In the last few years I haven't had any problems using it. Tap water can vary a lot depending on whose been fiddling with it and, as additives such as chlorine and fluoride are both essentially gases, they will disperse on storage. If you REALLY want GG to be honest, I don't sterilize my GH just give it a water-wash, plant pots and trays cleaned with a plant-pot brush and water, and my water butt has never been cleaned out since I bought it ten years ago and have never had any problems. I Have I by chance acquired some sort of ecological balance? :unsure:
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There are so many variables in gardening, especially when it comes to trying to avoid pests and diseases, and with one (late) outbreak of botrytis in 4 years, for me it's just one way of playing the percentages, but nothing is ever guaranteed.
If you've never had fungal diseases in your GH there's no reason to change anything - in your situation I wouldn't either GG. ;)
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A chum, who used to be a commercial tomato grower, told me that the only way he avoided blight, was to keep the air rushing through the greenhouses, where the plants were pretty tightly planted out.
I wonder how they do this in Thanet Earth (damn great acreages of greenhouses near Ramsgate)!
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I am reliably informed (?) that they eat a lot of baked beans down there and the resultant emission of sulphides is wot duz it.! :lol:
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I reckon you're making that up, Goosey, but I'll ask them anyway..;0)