Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: Caralou on February 20, 2009, 09:36
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One of my new girls, Dolly, who is a little madame at the best of times, is now plucking at the other two girl's bottom feathers and eating them. Very worried about it and not sure what to do.
They have got entertainment in their run in the form of cd's and feeding balls with bells as well as now having a bigger run than they were in, yet she seems to be getting worse. The other two don't seem to care less and just strut off from her, but I obviously want to stop it happening. I've started to let them out of the run in the morning for an hour before I go to work to have an explore, but doesn't seem to be stopping her.
Help!?? :(
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What are you feeding them Caralou?
Sometimes they eat feathers as they are lacking protein.
Once they get in to these habits they can be hard to break :(
I think Rob tried some chicken specs but they kept falling off his girls?
Just found this post which mentions stockholm tar. It might be worth a go ???
The post I found by Foxy in there might be handy too :)
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=29568.msg353898#msg353898
Sarah :)
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They are on a mix of layers pellets and corn as well as kitchen scraps of veggies etc. I'll try poultry spice and am tempted by the tar - tad messy, but if it works i'll try anything!
They dn't seem to have sore bottoms, still a good covering of feathers so it isn't too bad at present.. !chickens specs! :lol: :wacko:
It would seem telling her it's the cooking pot if she doesn't stop isn't working :nowink:
Cara
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They are on a mix of layers pellets and corn as well as kitchen scraps of veggies etc.
Feeding a mix of layers pellets and corn is, in my opinion, like giving children a mix of meat, veg and cakes. Which will they choose to eat first ?
I've seen this mix in the feed suppliers and to my mind it has a predominance of corn.
Laying hens need layers pellets ! These are a balanced supply of nutrients and ideally should be their main supply of food. Greens are a good additional feed and they are the only veg my chooks get. The best greens for them is fresh grass but there's not much of this about at this time of year - young grass contains about 16% protein, the same as layers pellets. Corn should only be fed in small amounts and late in the day, a half a handful per hen in the late afternoon to give them energy to stay warm overnight.
Too many treats, kitchen scraps and corn can reduce the the nutritional value of their diet and may lead to problems in behaviour, egglaying and resistnce to infection.
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They are on a mix of layers pellets and corn as well as kitchen scraps of veggies etc.
Feeding a mix of layers pellets and corn is, in my opinion, like giving children a mix of meat, veg and cakes. Which will they choose to eat first ?
I've seen this mix in the feed suppliers and to my mind it has a predominance of corn.
Laying hens need layers pellets ! These are a balanced supply of nutrients and ideally should be their main supply of food. Greens are a good additional feed and they are the only veg my chooks get. The best greens for them is fresh grass but there's not much of this about at this time of year - young grass contains about 16% protein, the same as layers pellets. Corn should only be fed in small amounts and late in the day, a half a handful per hen in the late afternoon to give them energy to stay warm overnight.
Too many treats, kitchen scraps and corn can reduce the the nutritional value of their diet and may lead to problems in behaviour, egglaying and resistnce to infection.
They get the layers in the morning and when I first get in at night another small handful on the ground to peck at and then some corn and scraps if I have any to pick at on the ground before bed time, majority of food is the pellets (i'd guess at a 85/15 balance). Mainly because the pellets were cheaper to buy in bulk from the farmer than anything else, but seems that it worked out well !!! They also have pellets in a bird feeder so that they can peck at them through the day to try to stop them pecking each other, although I only put that in this morning so I'll have to wait to see if it helps.
I'm having a tinternet search for cheapest store for poultry spice etc and will give it a go. I'll also be able to let them out properly all day tomorrow which should help (provided the kitten stops trying to play with them - she keeps getting pecked, but going back for more!).
Typically it's the madame that's doing it so I just wonder if perhaps she's sorting the "pecking order" pardon the pun and making sure the other two know she's top chook? Hopefully bigger coop, and a few days free ranging and a bit of spice will help :wub:
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I'm not quite sure why the chicken spice might help to stop pecking ???
They should have pellets available all day long so just full a big feeder and leave it with them all day. If they peck pellets from the ground the must be hungry ;) mine would just turn their beaks up at them and beg for something better :lol:
The "top" chook who is doing the pecking is, I assume the one that's laying. It would be good to see a good picture of her as I suspect she is older than the other two and therefore considers herself the boss.
Feather pecking is not always an agressive act. It can start as a grooming behaviour and then may become a habbit. Some people spray the feathers with teatree - the kind you can get for cats and dogs. It makes the feathers taste bad, but is not so drastic as stockholm tar !
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Hi cara.
I'm trying al sorts and am currently on the tar method. Too early to tell if it's had a good effect yet.
A full, fresh cabbage hung up slightly above head height will keep them busy for a day or three. In theory, if they get bored they'll go for the cabbage but I found while one was pecking at that, another would go to work on her bum ::)
I can see that the specs would work but I couldn't get them to stay put and I'm not sure how kind they are to their nostrils.
I'd give your current method a few days and if not, overload them with stimulation, including a small amount of cat food late on and see if you can nip it in the bud.
Good luck. Let us know if anything works. :)
Rob 8)
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I currently have a Bluebell who is sysematically working her way through plucking everyones bums at the moment. She is in with Merans, Orpingtons, Light Sussex and a Meran cock, all of which let her happily pluck bum and neck feathers off them! They do not tell her off and she is defo not top hen. It gets so anoying and I have tried all things appart from the tar on the bum method. Once they get fixated it is a hard habbit to break. If she wasn't such a good layer I would swop her with one of my friends birds for a while to see if a new environment will change her tune. Let you know how I get on.
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I am having this problem now aswell!! >:( I posted a little while ago about 'Sage' my mogrel hen bleeding on her foot and it looked like she had broken a feather on her foot it healed then happened again which I thought strange. Then My Bluebelles bottom was getting a bit bare - yeasterday when I went to put them in for the night there was blood everywhere and bluebelle was bleeding from her bottom (skin) and I have just checked Sage and she is bleeding too from her bottom skin!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:(.
It is my second Black Rock 'Parsley' I am mortifyed and have seperated her to 'The rabbit Hutch' !
I phoned the place that I purchesed the chickens from and the lady has told me to go over and get some Gentian Violet spray and maybe Anti Peck spray (for cage birds) will help - but it is a really hard habbit to break.
I told her what I feed and she said they are getting all the right stuff ie layers pellets then veg trimmings/grass in the afternoon and a small handful of corn at night. they have a large run and coop.
I will try this but Parsley will have to be permantly removed or put down if this continues .... has any body got any other suggestions before I take this drastic action as I want to cover all avenues first! :(
Trina
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I've been reading a bit about it and it can be caused by a lack of proteins of certain types. They miss the insects/worms/grubs they would get by free-ranging and can turn to feather eating to repalce it.
If grubs can be found it may ease the situation. I may go on a worm hunt shortly and try it out but it does seem to become a habit rather than a necessity.
Rob
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I'm starting to wonder if it is the time of year or the weather that may trigger this behaviour as untill a week ago my bird was not displaying this. As for protein laking in thier diet, mine get mostly layers pellets of a high protein value and every other day I dig over thier area (as no grass left only dirt) and they get hundreds of worms and grubs. As I dig my Bluebelle eats a few bum feathers then goes in for the worms! you have to laugh as its soooo frustrating. They get spice on the feed too and Battles in water. I think with some birds you just can't win.
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I reckon this calls for some European cash for a major research project. :)
About half a million should be enough. For the initial study. Then the other 5 million can cover the next 6 months. ::)
Rob 8)
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Ok Rob
We can start it off and go halves. May need more funding as this one will run and run I think! :lol:
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Ive got a couple starting doing it as well. Must be the weather!! I have had to separate them all. Got I in the greenhouse and one in the spare room in a dog cage.
I bought a lovely little silver dutch pullet from a top breeder to show and she now has no feathers round her neck or on her chest.
BJ
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I think, in all seriousness, it is the time of year. They seem to have spring fever! All hyped up with the longer days and this triggers something in them. Mine seem to be very hungry at the moment and making up for the winter months and I'm hoping with the better weather that they will eventually settle down again. Either that or I stop being a vege after 20 yrs and start eating chicken again! :ohmy: The eggs are getting bigger as the weeks go on too so they may be laking in something, one theary, or they need more food to compensate for the upped production all of a sudden. If they cannot fill on food they will fill up on feathers. They are after all made up of keratin which is what hair, nails, feathers are made of. Must have some dietry/nutritional content. My dogs love all the hoof trimming from my horses so it may even taste nice to them, thus perpetuating the habbit, (maybe?)
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I have the Purple Spray now and the pecked chickens have Purple bums so that makes 'Sage' ....... 'Purple Sage' now! doesnt it! ::) the Bluebelle 'Blue' is sprayed aswell they didnt seem to mind ............... strange thing was when the chicken that I saw pecking the bums 'Parsley'(on closer inspection) also has a pecked bum ??? so she was Purpled aswell !!!!!!!!!
I have introduced her back and we will see tomorrow ::) collective bum pecking .......... its not like they have nothing to do they get my total devotion ... toys the lot ..... this started about a week ago aswell sooooooooooooooooooooooo maybe it is something to do with spring????
Chickens who'd have em! :tongue2:
Trina
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As some of you know, I've recently lost some of our Babcock chicks to pecking, and I mentioned this to Simon our meat chick breeder, and he said that multi vitamins might help too. He has some cockerals who seem to start feather pecking when they are about 16 weeks old, and some of the pecked ones just seem to take it then lay down and die, which is what these chicks did! But although the chicks had plenty to keep them occupied in the house, they wouldn't go out in the snow, and I think they were getting bored with what was in the house ie straw bale and CD's the occasional cabbage hanging,. But now the snow has gone and more and more are coming out into the run, they have stopped.
However, our 'friends' down the road asked me to look at their Amberlinks who are from the same hatching as the ones Rob and Julie have. We popped down there today. haven't been down their place for some months. WEll...... these hens look like ex battery hens!!!! One had a prolapse poor little girl and 4 of the others are not only bald, but looked tall and VERY thin. One of them had a thick line of calcium full poop down her bum all dried on. They look nearly bald.
Then while I was talking to 'him', Brian saw 'her', feeding them. What are you doing he asked. Giving them their feed. It was in an ice cream tub, but I don't know what size tub it was. the feeder was empty apart from this bit she put in there and the birds swooped on it like they were starving. She told Brian they give the girls a tub of pellets in the morning, then early afternoon their corn and fruit and veg, then another tub of pellets in the afternoon, but when I sold them the hens I told them to feed them pellets adlib, with a few treats and corn late afternoon. But I've just thought, we saw them at 12.30 lunchtime, so if that was the morning feed, no wonder they were starving!
So its obvious the poor thngs are pecking each other to get some goodness! Brian was really angry with them and I told them to go and get some poultry spice and add to their feed and brian told them to fill the feeder up and keep it full, but I think they are having problems making ends meet, so the chooks suffer! God knows how long a bag of pellets lasts them, months I should think. I took a few photo's on my phone, but I can't put them on this computer and my other one is waitig for my little study to be re-decorated before it goes back in there and gets plugged in again!
Brian's just told me, it wasn't an ice cream tub she used, it was a small butter tub! No wonder they are pecking each other!! We gave them a bag of mash this afternoon which Brian bought cheap, but we don't use it!!!
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Oh Poor things! we have trouble making ends meet sometimes but the animals dont suffer for it, I only have 4 chickens - perhaps this lady should only have what she can afford?.......
Like I said we only have the 4 and they have it all and I am still having to contend with the feather (bum) pecking!!:mad:
oh well will see how we go with the Purple bums. ::)
Trina
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My chuks get ad-lib pellets and at the moment are eating twice as much as normal. These poor things must be starving that you mention. A quiet word in their ear is needed I think given this info or even direct talking as this verges on neglect. If any one owns an animal, no matter how small, they must feed correctly or animal suffers. If no action is taken the only choice you have is to report to the authourities. Not fair that animals suffer because of lack of funds. Help is only a phone call away if they cannot afford any more. I feel strongly about this and always have. If they don't get what they need they will be slowly starving and with birds the feathers hide weight loss very easily.
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Personally I've found that sometimes the purple works, sometimes it doesn't Trina. But I also use cheap petroleum jelly with some liquid paraffin mixed in. But as that's not as easy to get now, other people swear by tea tea cream, and I've got some tea tree oil that I can mix in with the jelly and another person said to mix baby oil in with the jelly, but I've not tried that one yet. We'll have to wait to see how poultrygeists stockholm tar is, because I've never tried that but have heard both good and bad things about it.
Pecking is very worrying, especially when it leads to death.
Here's a bit about if from DEFRA
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/pdf/featherpecking.pdf
Brian didn't have a 'quiet' word I'm afraid Mrs ploppy, he's not as diplomatic as me! He ws very angry, after all, I'd raised those chooks from a day old and it ws awful to see them like that.
the husband did kill the one with the bad prolapse this aftenoon. my brian offered to do it for him, as I think it's cruel to let them run around like that, and as has been said before, a prolapse is likely to keep returning.
And yes, our lot are eating a lot more than normal too at the moment. Getting through nearly 40kgs a day!!!!
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Glad to hear they took some notice of your hubby but if things do not improve then direct action is the only way I think. Sometimes people can be thick skinned, nieve or plain dumb. I know you can do all things and still have the feather plucking but there can be no excuse for not feeding correctly. It is a form of neglect. Good to know you have your eye on these animals and are there for advice. Perhaps even offer to take some off their hands or rehome for them if they are struggling? depending on your cercumstances of coarse. Don't ask, don't get as they say.
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It was me they bought them from Mrs P! But as i knew they had never kept chooks before, I gve them all the info, and told them to feed the chooks adlib, and only give a few treats in the afternoon and corn a couple of hours before bed, but in all the 'fun' of their new veg box selling business, I think the chooks are beng ignored. she calls them her 'babies', well I hope she didn't treat her own 'babies' like that!!!
Late last year I even asked if they wanted to take on my older girls as I wanted my laying flock to be hens from the same hatching, but they said no as they would be so upset if there were fights, as they are so soppy about their chooks, and also if they'd taken on anymore, they'd have to buy more feed, but then they are moaning about not having enough eggs to sell!!!
I can't win!!!
Oh he did buy some poultry spice this afternoon, then complained that it cost him over £6!!!
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I suspect my madame was getting bored even with the toys in the run, today no problems they are free ranging and terrorising the garden and cats! They always have pellets left over so I hope that with more space and me letting them free range more the problems should stop. One of the girls has got a bare bum bless her so I've had to go for the tea tree option until I can get some of the purple spray. Must admit the birds do smell lovely this morning :nowink:
I agree that no matter how tight money is animals should never suffer. And for value for money my birds already pay for their feed in their eggs so what more can you want??? The more feed the more eggs and the better value. I've only got the three but have got through nearly a third the 25 bag in 8 days along with corn and scraps, not sure if thats an awful lot, but they are eating it (and so are the cats for some strange reason...) so if they want more they get more!
I'm trying to get more photos now they are exploring, but my digi camera has died :( They do seem a lot happeir now though.
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Oh I'm pleased your girls seem a little happier now Cara! Hopefully, with more food and the poultry spice, these poor chooks down the road will start to put on a bit of weight and get their feathers back!
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I'm going to give the protein theory a try also. We should be able to get some netting to let them have a wander shortly too (keep saying it ::)) so fingers crossed.
Hurry up and get a camera Cara. We NEED photos !!! :D
Rob 8)
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why on earth do people name their chickens? you'll only get upset when they cark it.
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I'll also get upset when my cats and rabbits die, but that's no reason not to name them. What a silly point :ohmy:!!!
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secretly your pets have named you too.
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Of course they have named me! They love me - I bring food!
Why shouldn't they have names? We only have 8 even though we have lots of space because there's only so many eggs we can use or give away and I am always mindful of the fact that we are responsible for their health and wellbeing even if you are rearing for meat. I'm sure I read somewhere that ill treatment even through ignorance is still illegal.
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why on earth do people name their chickens? you'll only get upset when they cark it.
Don't see the relevance to this post upert?
Some people name their birds, some people name their cars, some people talk to plants :wacko:
Does it really matter?
The post is asking for help and advice on hens pecking each other!
Sarah :)
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FOR GRANNIE
I think from what you say that these people are only out for what they can get out of these birds and are probably not at all interested in their well fare. I would have no love loss in reporting them to the RSPCA or such. All you can do now is offer advice etc to them, not sell or give any more birds and just snitch on them. Heartbreaking when others do not treat animals with the respect they deserve. Chucks after all have very basic needs and compared to most animals are cheap to keep. You cannot save the world and you cannot teach the ignorant as I always say.
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Well they do love them, just forgot all the basics I taught them at the beginning, by getting carried away giving them toys to play with and too much fruit and veg to eat, then giving them their pellets and corn at the wrong times.
I'm sure at first they used to actually put the pellets INTO the feeder! the other day Brian said she just chucked the pellets from the butter tub onto the side of the feeder and most of it fell on the ground.
It's a bit like those poor little lap dogs that are so pampered with the wrong foods that they die of obesity, except these poor girls are dying becuase they are nto getting enough proper nutrients.
I hope they keep up with the poultry spice and feeding regime we told them about again, and the girls get back to full health! We'll be keeping an eye on them!
Hopefully the couple will go back to the town. They are trying to encompass the countrylife, but its not working!!!! lol
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There's also the myth that chickens can look after themselves, which is fine if they can free range all over but once they're in a run, they're as dependant as a dog, cat or hamster.
Hopefully Brian's pep talk has sunk in and they'll have seen how poor husbandry soon pays you back.
Rob 8)
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Fingers crossed Rob!
Oh and Caralou!!!! I'm soooo sorry I seem to have hijacked your post something terrible!!!! But I didn't think it would go on so long!!!!!
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Good luck to all with the feather pecking thing. I'm starting to think that the purple bummed chicken is an actual breed of bird! Ha Ha. Try all you can as I do belive it may be seasonal and they will settle in the end.
FOR GRANNIE
If these are the same people with the vege boxes they sound unlikeable to me. Do not take this on a personal level and just have your interests in the birds. Won't be the end of the world if you fall out with them. You sound like a very caring person so follow your heart and do the best you can in the cercumstances. You live and learn. xx
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Yes they are the same couple Mrs P! And I know you are right, but I do try to see the good in people! After all, I've been with my Brian for 20 years now!!!!