Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: rowlandwells on March 30, 2022, 18:18
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I'm of the opinion and I've said many times on this site one needs to put back in the ground what one takes out and its becoming more of a problem for allotment holders to get access to cattle dung well it is for us because some farmers may be arable growers don't keep live stock and those that do keep stock its not really worth doing as most have large trailers that they cant get near the allotments or even in the allotment gates
so what's the alternative we use horse manure that needs stacking for at least twelve months so what to do well we tend to use as said horse manure and chemical fertilizer and some organic feeds and although this does produces results I would like to sow and grow something to put humus back in the ground we have been trying green manure [mustard] but I'm unsure if green manure puts back enough goodness back in the ground
so it boils down to finding a good alternative to cattle manure something we can grow from seed maybe there's a green manure that can compensate? I've toiled with the idea of growing a wheat crop cutting it down when its ripe ploughing in the straw in and the stubble back in the ground but as that tends to pull the nutrients out of the ground it mite not be the rite crop to put back humus so its difficult for me to put my finger on what to grow that will benefit the growing ground
and so I thought I would throw this back to our members to get there opinions on this topic and what they think mite be a good alternative and the other thing is as you know fertilizers are going up in leaps and
bounds so what's the alternative for improving soil quality I ask ?
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I have access to farmyard manure but if I did not I would be making as much compost as I could getting material from were ever. I grow in raised beds so I only treat some of my beds with manure the others get the cheapest compost I can lay my hands on. At the end of this year I have three 600L and one mega composter maybe 5000L to empty onto selected beds and covering with cardboard over winter the others will get manure. If I was really flush with the stuff I would just use well made compost as farm manure is full of weed seeds.
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Some really good points and thought provoking questions
I myself this year have added a load of well rotted horse muck and spent mushroom compost, but I too am thinking about green manure over winter
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I sow green manure, on a small part of my plot where the soil seems particularly lifeless, it is slowly improving :)
In spring everywhere gets some Orgro Concentrated Manure and some seaweed meal, I put bagged manure into buckets for potato growing and this also gets returned to the beds after harvest.
I really think anything you can add makes a difference.....
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Hello I have a contact who takes horse manure from racing stables compost it sterilisers it and sells it in bags,its good stuff ,if an allotment wanted a good few bags I'm sure he'd deliver it jezza
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interesting to note some of you like me use horse manure however its important when buying or getting free horse manure that the hay or other hay like feeds have not been subject to weed treatments before cutting the grass to make hay as this can cause real problems for growing veg and other plants
and what I did notice yesterday when we went down the allotments was someone had spread fresh horse manure and sawdust over there plot not a good idea me thinks
so hopefully there will be more advise regarding this topic coming from our members as it would be of interest to find out what could be used to beef up the soil organically if possible
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Horse manure that I test for amniopyralids, chicken manure pellets, blood,fish & bone & homemade compost that has fresh manure layered through it & copious amounts of chicken manure from the pen clear out twice a year are all I use. Spent compost from the greenhouse tomatoes & pots gets used around the garden usually as a mulch with additions of all but homemade compost as I make it all at the plot & there’s horsetail/marestail there & non at home so I don’t risk bringing it to the garden.
As I now do no dig throughout I’m using less chicken pellets & blood,fish & bone as it just doesn’t need it.
In the tunnel last year (1st year of having it) I didn’t feed the tomatoes,cues,peppers at all with any additional feeds aka Charles Dowding advice & they were brilliant, they were all planted in the ground. Last year was 4th year no dig for me. So savings all round if I don’t need to buy any in as the manure is free.
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I'm new to allotments and this forum and am surprised that people can get cow manure. I come from a long line of dairy cattlemen and women and no farmer that I know of would sell muck off the farm. There's been new developements such as cattle kept indoors all year, not just over winter so obviously more bedding to process. I'll get in touch with my cousins and see if they can enlighten me.
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Rowland:
Compost that includes green manure crops will contain substantial nitrogen. Whether the green manure is grass, comfrey, clover, or mustard, it all contains nitrogen. For crops that are used as forage for cattle etc., it is common to measure total nitrogen to measure the protein content of the forage ("crude protein" (CP)). The CP value of forage is just the forage lab's measurement of the nitrogen content in the forage, and multiplying that nitrogen number by 6.25. The amount of nitrogen varies by crop type and condition.
A forage grass crop, managed for maximum yield and quality, harvested at the optimum time, may have 12% CP (as DRY matter, green hay will be less, due to the water content). Divide 12% by 6.25, the dry matter is 2% nitrogen. Compost that hay, some of that nitrogen is available quickly, other becomes available slowly as the compost is broken down by insects, fungi, bacteria, worms, etc. (so prior year compost becomes a slow-release "nitrogen reservoir" in your soil). Old hay beyond it's prime will have less CP and therefore less nitrogen (but still has value for compost!). Other crops may have higher CP content, others less.
I think that if manures become less available to you, green manures (or compost from them) are good choice. I'd wager you already have a good quantity of nitrogen "banked" in your soil, due to past horse manure applications that you have posted about!
Added later: Let's say you have a 50-pound bag of compost, from green manure and dry matter ("browns", leaves and so forth), and it is 1% nitrogen. The area you are covering with that bag is getting a half pound of nitrogen! Think about the area over which you use 50 pounds of compost, that is a LOT of nitrogen!
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I think your on the rite track S/P because after having the soil tested it came up with only deficient in sulphur so that's not to bad but I'm never the less looking at trying to put more humus back in the ground so any green material should improve the soil and being less reliant on using chemical fertilizers if that makes sense
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I found fodder radish to be a very good green manure crop last year. It grows very fast and makes a lot of top growth.
It was sown late summer on ground that had been growing broad beans and potatoes. It got strimmed down late autumn and covered with plastic. There were a lot of green leaves on the surface of the soil and loads of roots in it at that point. That ground was uncovered last week and all traces of the radish are gone, but the soil is full of worms, friable and looks in great heart :)
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is this fodder radish what we call fodder beat round here new shoot? anyway that really sounds a good thing to try and I would tend to plough it in rather than cover it but digging it in or ploughing I suspect would still do the job as good and so your reply another bit of good info :D
Thank you
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is this fodder radish what we call fodder beat round here new shoot? anyway that really sounds a good thing to try and I would tend to plough it in rather than cover it but digging it in or ploughing I suspect would still do the job as good and so your reply another bit of good info :D
Thank you
I’m not sure if it the same as fodder beet. I got mine last year from Sow Seeds, but was looking at this supplier on eBay for a bulk buy. I reckon it will keep a year or two for me and it is probably in better quantities for you :)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133852409949?hash=item1f2a39b05d:g:k00AAOSwrk5eyPvP
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I think your on the rite track S/P because after having the soil tested it came up with only deficient in sulphur so that's not to bad but I'm never the less looking at trying to put more humus back in the ground so any green material should improve the soil and being less reliant on using chemical fertilizers if that makes sense
Hi Rowland
It sounds like you have things in great shape!
If you want to take care of that sulfur, you can supply as calcium sulfate (gypsum), or magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts). Yellow sulfur will also work.
However, if sulfur is not too low, you might want to leave it alone, especially if you grow onions. Our famous Vidalia (Georgia) onions are a mild and sweet short-day onions, part of the reason they are so sweet are the low sulfur soils near Vidalia. One of the varieties most commonly grown in that region is called Yellow Granex.
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I just liberally spread chicken manure pellets on beds plus home made compost for my bean trench etc. Sometimes add a bit of growmore too to boost growth. I used to regularly add horse manure from the local stables but I haven’t been for a couple of years due to the dreaded Covid. Don’t think they are as relaxed as they were in the past I just used to wander in and take the manure from their pile out back. Agree though about aiming to get the older manure not fresh. Not sure it’s recommended but about 30 years ago I had a lorry load of pig manure delivered to home and had a massive crop of spuds. Don’t know what my neighbours thought of the stink though!
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HH, you're a braver man than I am.
I think if I had a lorry load of pig manure delivered to the house, :ohmy: :unsure: I'd have a massive crop of neighbors bearing torches and pitchforks >:( :mad: :ohmy: :dry:.
Mrs. Subversive might have been leading them too!
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Those lucky enough to live by the sea can take advantage of nature's bounty when the seaweed's thrown ashore at the end of the year. It isn't a soil improver in the same way as bulky organics, but as a growth stimulator it seems to have no equal. I mulch with it in late autumn and early winter and let the worms do the rest - worms which subsequently show up dressed in incredibly vivid colours. if it does the worms this much good just imagine what it's doing for the plants!
Plants grown on areas which have been "seaweeded" are not only way more vigorous and healthy, but show much improved pest resistance. I read somewhere that it's slightly alkaline and the effect on my clay soil seems to bear this out, with a more crumbly texture similar to that achieved by liming.
The stuff doesn't add humus to the soil, so I still add bulky organics at mulching time, generally my own compost, or occasional applications of horse poop from a local source.
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Useful thread about whether - or in what circumstances - it is lawful to take seaweed from the seashore:
https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=86170.0
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make a few compost bins out of pallets and get food scraps from you local pubs. it soon builds up.
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Horse manure that I test for amniopyralids...
May I ask how you are doing this?
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That’ll be the bean test.
Beans, peas, tomatoes and white clover show aminopyralid contamination quickly.
Fill some pots with suspected compost and others with a known ‘safe’ compost,. Sow the seeds and wait for approximately 3 – 4 weeks.
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Horse manure that I test for amniopyralids, chicken manure pellets, blood,fish & bone & homemade compost that has fresh manure layered through it & copious amounts of chicken manure from the pen clear out twice a year are all I use. Spent compost from the greenhouse tomatoes & pots gets used around the garden usually as a mulch with additions of all but homemade compost as I make it all at the plot & there’s horsetail/marestail there & non at home so I don’t risk bringing it to the garden.
As I now do no dig throughout I’m using less chicken pellets & blood,fish & bone as it just doesn’t need it.
In the tunnel last year (1st year of having it) I didn’t feed the tomatoes,cues,peppers at all with any additional feeds aka Charles Dowding advice & they were brilliant, they were all planted in the ground. Last year was 4th year no dig for me. So savings all round if I don’t need to buy any in as the manure is free.
Hi Snowdrop, just wondered how you are managing the mairs tail if you're doing no dig? I'm trying no dig in some areas where there is only a bit of it but in other areas I'm not sure if the veg will get disrupted. I've been digging and removing as much root as possible so reluctant to let it get a hold again by going no dig??? Any advice appreciated :D
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I just trowel it out, not digging a great hole, just done the fruit cage today 6x3 mtrs & got a big tub trug full. It’s quite satisfying to loosen it with the trowel & pull until it snaps, sometimes with quite a long root on it. I read somewhere once to let it grow 7-10cms & then trowel it out as described previously & this weakens it. It has helped around the rest of the plot, but last year the fruit cage got neglected so it’s made a comeback in there, so this year I need to up my game :lol:
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Useful thread about whether - or in what circumstances - it is lawful to take seaweed from the seashore:
https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=86170.0
Regardless of the legal arguments no-one seems to mind how much one takes when it's heaped up into mountains, each weighing several tons, and smelling rather strongly! I've been approached by the police more than once - mainly to see what I was up to after dark, dragging big black bins around in the sea front car park! Once I explain that it's the only time I can get easy access they're perfectly happy for me to continue; even inquisitive about how to use it and why it works. I've lost count of the conversations I've had with other members of the public who've shown an interest.
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Lucky you Rob to have friendly police, where I used to live in North Kent, they weren't as friendly :( Regardless of local response, I'm sure you understand that this site needs to give the correct legal advice on seaweed collection.
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Lucky you Rob to have friendly police, where I used to live in North Kent, they weren't as friendly :( Regardless of local response, I'm sure you understand that this site needs to give the correct legal advice on seaweed collection.
Indubitably. Just pointing out that with accommodating authorities and a friendly attitude there's every chance that permission can be had.
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Indubitably. Just pointing out that with accommodating authorities and a friendly attitude there's every chance that permission can be had.
Well it is good news your local police were OK about it, but if you take 5 minutes to read the link suggested, it is the landowner or the local authorities you check with, depending on who owns the piece of seashore you want to harvest from and you do that before helping yourself.
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Lucky you Rob to have friendly police, where I used to live in North Kent, they weren't as friendly :( Regardless of local response, I'm sure you understand that this site needs to give the correct legal advice on seaweed collection.
Indubitably. Just pointing out that with accommodating authorities and a friendly attitude there's every chance that permission can be had.
The police cannot give permission to collect seaweed, they would be breaking the law too.