Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => General Gardening => Topic started by: AlaninCarlisle on May 07, 2017, 17:28
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I've finally got my pond dug, lined and filled. It's 20ft x 15ft x 3ft deep in the middle. It's on the edge of a field, maybe 15ft on the north side of mainly hawthorn hedge. To keep my grandkids safe until they get a bit older, it has a 4ft high wire-mesh fence around it with a lockable gate.
I've started to put oxygenating plants and weed into it but am looking for a bit of inspiration on the following:
What is the best way of disguising the black pond-liner as it slopes into the pond? The liner which is on the horizontal is easy as I will just shovel earth on it and seed it.
How do I stop the water going green? Standard wisdom amongst local gardeners with much smaller ponds is to fill it with rainwater rather than tap-water. Not an option due to its size and remoteness from roofing gutters etc. Neither do I have the option of a waterfall or any other electrical means of water circulation.
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There are quite a few creeping plants that will grow over the edges of ponds to disguise the edges. Your local pond shop will have them, but you can also raid the garden centre. Ajuga and Lysimachia (creeping jenny) will both tumble over the edges and are not too bothered about getting their hair wet.
I have hardy geraniums and ferns bordering mine and they also tumble down onto and even into the water without seeming too bothered.
The water will go green at first, but leave it alone and it will sort itself out. Tap water is OK - the chlorine will quickly evaporate off. After giving it a week or so for that to happen, see of one of those local pond keepers will let you have a bucket of sludge from the bottom of their pond. It will be teeming with stuff that will help get your pond off to a good start :)
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Thanks, good advice. I'll see if the local garden centres sell any of those plants although I must say that I'd never noticed anything other than the usual water-lilies or showy perennials etc. Maybe I can buy them on line as plug plants. Intrigued about water going green, I assume it's an algae growth and if so wonder why the local old sages with ponds recommend rain-water v tap-water to prevent it?
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All new ponds go green for a bit, but the nitrates in tap water don't help. If you have a large pond to fill, tap water is really the only option, but as the natural balance sorts itself out, the water will clear.
Ajuga and Lysimachia are usually sold in the alpine sections of most garden centres, although they aren't really alpines as such.
If you are looking for plants for the steep sides of the pond, concentrate more on the sun/shade aspect, as the soil will be as wet or dry as your soil normally is. Anything a bit tumbling is good as it provides routes in and out of the water for wildlife, as well as disguising the edges. On the sloping sides, the soil is wetter are you are looking at true marginals.
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I've finally got my pond dug, lined and filled. It's 20ft x 15ft x 3ft deep in the middle. It's on the edge of a field, maybe 15ft on the north side of mainly hawthorn hedge. To keep my grandkids safe until they get a bit older, it has a 4ft high wire-mesh fence around it with a lockable gate.
I've started to put oxygenating plants and weed into it but am looking for a bit of inspiration on the following:
Pond is settling down nicely, marginal plants and re-growth of grass make it look more natural.
A question about fish: Stagnant ponds like this in my childhood (I imagine originally dug as watering holes for livestock) invariably had a stock of small fishes in them such as sticklebacks, roach, tench and etc. Is this a good idea and if so, can they be bought?
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Although sticklebacks might be OK, larger fish do eat a large amount of small wildlife in pond, and tench, being bottom feeders, hoover up snails, dragon fly larvae, water slaters etc and in a pond the size you have would denude it pretty quickly imho. Our pond at home has koi in it and the comparison in the richness of what else lives there with the (tiny)pond on our plot which has no fish is staggering!!
I made a mistake with the garden pond in including wild yellow flag, which is a tremendous thug and took a lot of work in keeping it under control... got rid of it all in the end and replaced it with much smaller irises.
Another plant that grows well and it easy to control is Brooklime, with pretty blue flowers. Romps around in damp soil and gives lots of cover for small frogs etc as they come out of the water
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Oops, my wife has just put some yellow flag into it from the remnants of an earlier (filled in for safety) pond in a bit of woodland between the garden and the field. I'll keep an eye on it. Now I think about it, it did tend to take over that earlier pond
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To help with oxygenating try a small solar-operated fountain or bubbler.
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Oops, my wife has just put some yellow flag into it from the remnants of an earlier (filled in for safety) pond in a bit of woodland between the garden and the field. I'll keep an eye on it. Now I think about it, it did tend to take over that earlier pond
It'll be very happy there, no doubt.... in fact far too happy in all probability. Round here volunteer groups spend a long time removing it from the river and canal sides, as it marches determinedly outwards over the years 🤓🤓🤓
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To help with oxygenating try a small solar-operated fountain or bubbler.
Now the pond has settled down, some of the plants are growing well and the surrounding area looks back to natural. I'm thinking of buying a solar-powered filtration unit to keep the water a bit cleaner so fish will survive (just had a few small gold-fish in mind). Bearing in mind the 20ft x 15ft x 3ft dimensions, does anyone have any thoughts/recommendations on this please?
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Filtration* is not really needed just a bubbler or water jet/ fountain to keep the water moving to absorb oxygen. It is more important that this works at night when water plants absorb oxygen and release CO2 so direct solar power is not good.
* High end protein skimmers etc are a different matter ! ;)
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Got same advice yesterday from a local pond and pond-life supplier, so thanks 8doubles.
As the pond is primarily for the benefit of my 4 small grandkids, I bought a dozen small goldfish, about 2" long. I figured that native fish like chub etc that are dark in colour and bottom feeders would be largely invisible to the little ones. The shop-owner told me goldfish would be fine in a large wildlife pond, especially if I install the "bubbler" recommended above.
A couple of questions to other pond-owners:
At what stage do the goldfish start to come off the bottom and take the flake-food I bought for them? Since introducing them to the pond, they have stayed out of sight
How big will they grow?
Are they likely to breed?
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I guess you know this but please please ensure there are ramps to let any hedgehogs that fall in get out safely. As for green water it is said by some that barley straw will clear it and some pond suppliers sell it in bags etc and some landowners use a full bale. Best of luck with the pond. My ponds are all aerated as I can get power to them. Some use solar powered aerators on basis if sun shines then the algae grows but also the aerators are running.
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There's probably enough food in the pond at the moment to be honest. Yes they're likely to breed but the fry might get eaten, by themselves or tadpoles etc. We had to empty our pond out last week & found 13 young fish,all black,can't tell what they are, could be grass carp,koi,goldfish or shubumkins, it was a real treat to find them. Our goldfish are about 6"
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I guess you know this but please please ensure there are ramps to let any hedgehogs that fall in get out safely.
It's not only hedgehogs, my grandkids' safety is a concern too, so the pond has gentle contours all around its perimeter plus a 4ft high wire-mesh fence :D
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The dozen goldfish introduced into the pond over a week ago have not been seen since. There are no dead fish floating on the surface and as the pond is quite large and nearly four feet deep, I'm assuming they are just lurking on the bottom and feeding on insect-life etc. Certainly the flake I've scattered on the surface on two occasions has had no takers.
Is this non-appearance by newly introduced fish into quite a large ( 20ft x 15ft) pond quite normal?
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Even after they get used to their new surroundings, goldfish will remain quite nervous and dive to the bottom if frightened - you may get to spot them nearer the surface if you stand a bit further away and don't move or make any noise.
Assuming it's too big to net, there is a possibility of course that a heron has visited your pond - time will tell.
I stocked my pond about 15 years ago with 5 young goldfish which bred freely initially, but unfortunately the pond was too small to support such large numbers and there are only about half a dozen quite large ones in there now (including one completely black one - in fact none of them are entirely orange!)
I bought summer flake food and special winter food for them to start off with, but they never showed any interest in either, so I stopped feeding them several years go. They all look plump and well fed though - I suspect a large part of their diet is frog tadpoles, although I have gone to great lengths to provide underwater hiding places for them to make sure at least some of them make it out of there as froglets.
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Another question please, given the size, I estimate about 10,000 litres, can anyone recommend an effective solar-powered bubbler or oxygenator please? The pond is about 100 metres from any power source, so solar power is my only option. Again, given its distance from the house, I don't want to tempt any opportunist theft, so something fairly low-tech and cheap would be ideal - if there is such a product!
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Wind powered generator for a low voltage bubbler another way to go ?
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That's a cracking good idea. Being where we are, not too far from the Solway firth, the wind is a constant factor. I'll start searching now, but to be honest, I've never seen anything advertised
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Alan: A pond with plenty of healthy plants and not overstocked with fish (which yours certainly isn't) shouldn't need any artificial aeration, and solar powered fountains don't produce much anyway.
My goldfish pond has never had any filtration or artificial aeration, yet remains clear apart from early in the season when it sometimes temporarily gets 'green water' until the plants get going.
Of course if you want a fountain for ornamental reasons that's a different matter. ;)
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No, I've no interest in an ornamental fountain. It'd be way out of place an a wildlife pond. My problem as a newbie to such ponds is all the conflicting advice re necessity of things like filtration and aeration. Obviously the various stockists say they are indispensable, as does a friend who keeps Koi carp in his pond
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Ponds 'in the wild' get by without filtration and aeration - Koi carp are much more demanding than goldfish, although I have seen them in a lake at Thornbridge Hall which has neither filtration or aeration (although it is part of a continuous flow of water which also supplies all the other watery features in the gardens.)
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JayG is quite right in what you says, and if you have plenty of oxygenating plants then the fish will cope even with hot weather if there are only a few of them in a largish pond like yours.
The solar powered small fountains I have seen probably won't make a huge difference in that volume of water
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I think you have to make up your mind whether you want a " wildlife pond " or a pond with fish in. We have 2 wildlife ponds. One is similar size to yours the other is smaller. Twenty years ago we bought 3 golden rudd. Big mistake. The wildlife we had there were frogs, newts various beetles, water shrimp everything to keep a pond healthy. The fish as they got bigger ate more and more of the life in there. They also poo a lot which if you read up helps to cause the pond to go green. That's why filtration is necessary. Also the pond needs to be covered on the surface by 2/3. This can be by lily leaves and other floating greenery. This also helps keep the pond clear. As has already been mentioned ponds in the wild have no help but continue to thrive and I've noticed with one round my way that it does go through changes through the year ie blanket weed, but it seems to sort itself out. Both my ponds are fish free, have lots of oxygenaters,loads of wildlife and clear. Leave your fish for a Friday night treat ( wrapped in batter )
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I think you have to make up your mind whether you want a " wildlife pond " or a pond with fish in.
Hahaha, I'm afraid that unless I can persuade a heron to find the damned fish and eat them, I have now no choice. The pond is alive with beetles, water-skaters, various other unknown crawlies, oxygenating weed and introduced margin plants. Somewhere 3 ft down are a dozen goldfish that since their introduction 2 weeks ago are refusing to make an appearance. As there is a four ft high mesh fence around it almost to the water's edge, until youngest grandchild gets a bit older, I doubt there's been any heron in it as It'd have to land in a couple of feet of water and then swim
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Right, after being in hiding since they were put in the pond 10 days ago, the goldfish have shown themselves. All 12 of them chasing each other around near the surface. They even took some flake! My heron-proofing of a netting fence all the way round, so close to the pond's edge that there's no room for a heron to land, seems to be working. Just need the fish to show themselves when grandchildren are here!
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Herons are wading birds so need to land then walk in to the pond, then they need 3 to 5ft of runway to be able to take off, well that's what we read when we saw a heron on our fence eying up the fish, so we have planting round the only edge that they can wade in then 2 strategically placed washing lines so they can't take off
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I am glad your fish are still alive and well, Alan 😀 Sounds like they should be safe from herons. We have strategically placed shrubs and washing lines like Snowy does, but they still land on the apex of the greenhouse and eye up the pond from time to time
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So, tell me how those storks that nest on the top of minarets, and chimneys in Istanbul and Milan, (to name but 2), take off if they need 3 -5 feet of runway, :lol:, :lol:.
It's all right, I know how, just joking.
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The goldfish seem to be thriving after they were introduced in late June. They are perceptibly larger than they were, so presumably they are eating the abundant insect life. As we get to winter and the insect life dies out, do I need to start to feed them?
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As the water cools the fishes digestive system slows down and they are less active , try a little floating food pellet if they are active.
Goldfish also graze algae and even get nutrients from the green algae in the water.
Even in winter a few insects and worms will fall in to supplement their diet.
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Well, here we are 15 months since the pond was started. It looks like it has been there for ten years, so well has it naturalised.
The original 12 goldfish are now down to 7 but at least 3 tiddlers offspring have survived as well so we are doing OK with a total of 10 fish plus a couple of newts. Some of the tadpoles made it to frog stage and I even found one in one of the drinking troughs used by the ponies. The insect life is even more fascinating than the fish with a huge variety of aquatic beetles.
Also fascinating is watching the tiny silvery young goldfish trying to keep up with their elders as they do circuits of the pond.
I'm just grateful for the field standpipe which combined with 60 metres of hosepipe has enabled me to dribble water in throughout the 7 week drought, which now seems like a distant memory
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No rain in weeks. That along with almost non-stop strong winds meant that I once again had to top it up with hosepipe and stand-pipe. I cannot remember a late winter and early spring as dry as this. Good new is that it's alive with tadpoles, various water-beetles, snails and the population of gold-fish seems to have doubled - no doubt the beggars have been feeding on the tadpoles and spawn!