Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: steved on March 12, 2016, 16:30
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Just bought some Jeyes for disinfecting the stones around the side of the house where the dog likes to unload.
Reading the bottle as i was bored, it says you can use to keep your water butts clean of the slime etc that builds up over the year by adding 5ml per butt.
However, it also says to not get it anywhere plants. As most people who have water butts will no doubt use them to water plants, is the concentration so small as to not have any adverse effects?
Has anyone used it in this way and noticed any problems?
I empty and clean out the communal butts closest to my allotment yearly and its a PITA job!
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I know this link starts with greenhouse cleaning, but there is a bit about cleaning out water butts further down, which says use Jeyes to clean, then rinse away.
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=731
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Thanks for that New Shoot, maybe it was just me, but from the label it seemed you could use it with the 5ml per butt as you go, so to speak?
Maybe i'll give it a swerve, as no one seems to have used it as such.
Cheers
Steve
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I think that's probably the best option. If that concentration is enough to kill algae spores in the water butt, I would be worried it would also kill plants you used that water on.
You wouldn't popular if that happened on your allotment site :ohmy:
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You can use Citrox disinfectant in water butts - it's quite safe :)
http://www.organiccatalogue.com/p596/CITROX-DISINFECTANT-500ml/product_info.html
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I think that's probably the best option. If that concentration is enough to kill algae spores in the water butt, I would be worried it would also kill plants you used that water on.
You wouldn't popular if that happened on your allotment site :ohmy:
As well as being fatal to other healthy soil organisms and fauna as well. Swerving it sounds good and Mumof Stig hs provided an excellent suggestion for ater butt maintenance ☺
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We always clean the greenhouse with jeyes fluid, then give the soil a quick spray.Never had any problem with my various crops of veg and flowers.
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I believe that legally you aren't supposed to use Jeyes on the soil Mrs Bean
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I believe that legally you aren't supposed to use Jeyes on the soil Mrs Bean
I use to use this for club root, but now grow brassicas in pots using mole hill soil mixed with compost. Most chemicals are off the shelf now. Sodium chlorate for weeds and copper solutions for potato are next.
Because this is an European ruling, would anything change if we left the EU?
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Sodium Chlorate was banned in 2009, Bordeaux mix and other copper sprays were banned in 2014.
Interesting point about Brexit maybe altering rules :unsure:
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Sodium Chlorate was banned in 2009, Bordeaux mix and other copper sprays were banned in 2014.
Interesting point about Brexit maybe altering rules :unsure:
Would we want them returned to the shelves though? Both sodium chlorate and copper solutions are harmful to people as well to the environment
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If Brexit does happen, then the opinion of most observers is that the regulations and the Authorities involved with such within the UK will retain the regulations and the Regulators as it would cost too much to change them. Difficult to state that something is a known "poison" then just declare it isn't.
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Would we want them returned to the shelves though? Both sodium chlorate and copper solutions are harmful to people as well to the environment
Agreed, Sodium Chlorate is toxic if ingested but no more so than many other products that are still licenced for sale, let's face it bleach is pretty harmful if ingested. There are still copper based products available for sale so it is not necessarily correct that Bordeaux Mixture and some copper sprays were banned for environmental or health reasons.
More likely is that the profit to be made from selling these products (some of which are now in the public domain) will not satisfy the manufacturers' greed in light of the cost of licencing them. It is easier and more profitable to release new products into a now 'closed' market and reap a higher profit margin.
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Would we want them returned to the shelves though? Both sodium chlorate and copper solutions are harmful to people as well to the environment
Agreed, Sodium Chlorate is toxic if ingested but no more so than many other products that are still licenced for sale, let's face it bleach is pretty harmful if ingested. There are still copper based products available for sale so it is not necessarily correct that Bordeaux Mixture and some copper sprays were banned for environmental or health reasons.
More likely is that the profit to be made from selling these products (some of which are now in the public domain) will not satisfy the manufacturers' greed in light of the cost of licencing them. It is easier and more profitable to release new products into a now 'closed' market and reap a higher profit margin.
Any chemical can be dangerous if used incorrectly, but you can't dismiss the environmental impact of some of them. The build up of copper over time, in soils that have been treated with sprays like bordeaux mixture, is pretty well documented. Home growers may use may a lot less product than your average vineyard owner, but there a lot more of us dotted across the land.
Manufacturers are in it to make money. Why exist otherwise, but unless they can corner the market on some new wonder replacement, it is not in their interest to see stuff banned. Some slow selling lines have gone because the economics just didn't add up against licensing fees. Most of stuff now off the market has been because of pollution of soils, watercourses, problems with run-off or potential health threats.
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By way of an example:
"Dithane" was replaced by Bayer with "Bayer's Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control", this was then withdrawn, not due to its copper content as they still sell "copper oxychloride" the active constituent , in other products such as Cupravit 35 in Italy. 'Copper oxychloride' is also still available in the UK as a plant nutrient.
It is approved under EC Regulation 1107/2009 until at least 31/1/2018 and "is not considered to be a risk to game and wildlife when used as directed."
So did Bayer stop producing "Bayer's Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control" for environmental reasons?
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All the copper products have come under increasing testing, I believe it's only a matter of time before they are all banned.
If it was just Bayer withdrawing it, it don't think it would have a must be used by date. It would just be stocked 'til it was all sold. It's regulations making it illegal to be sold.
Cupravit 35 is a product approved for organic farms (not for amateur growers) - so usage is more controlled.
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All the copper products have come under increasing testing,......
ALL products have come under increasing testing! This is why the manufacturers only want to continue with lines which are most profitable and let you believe it is regulation that has lead to the other products being removed.
......I believe it's only a matter of time before they are all banned. ,......
Are the products banned or unlicenced, if the manufacturers decide there is a profit to be made they could pay to have the product relicenced
.....It's regulations making it illegal to be sold......
They became illegal to sell as their licence had expired and the manufacturers decided not to renew the licence (probably for financial reasons). The authorities did not decide to revoke the licences. Their 'removal' was driven by the manufacturers.
There are some products that have been removed for health or environmental reasons, it is convenient for the manufacturers to hide behind this smoke screen.
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By way of an example:
"Dithane" was replaced by Bayer with "Bayer's Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control", this was then withdrawn, not due to its copper content as they still sell "copper oxychloride" the active constituent , in other products such as Cupravit 35 in Italy. 'Copper oxychloride' is also still available in the UK as a plant nutrient.
It is approved under EC Regulation 1107/2009 until at least 31/1/2018 and "is not considered to be a risk to game and wildlife when used as directed."
So did Bayer stop producing "Bayer's Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control" for environmental reasons?
You can still buy it on Amazon quite readily, complete with its copper content .....
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You can still buy it on Amazon quite readily, complete with its copper content .....
At £35 for six sachets, I think someone has some old stock and is 'cashing in' on the fact that it is wanted but not generally available. You can also buy 'Dithane 945'.
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All the copper products have come under increasing testing,......
ALL products have come under increasing testing! This is why the manufacturers only want to continue with lines which are most profitable and let you believe it is regulation that has lead to the other products being removed.
......I believe it's only a matter of time before they are all banned. ,......
Are the products banned or unlicenced, if the manufacturers decide there is a profit to be made they could pay to have the product relicenced
.....It's regulations making it illegal to be sold......
They became illegal to sell as their licence had expired and the manufacturers decided not to renew the licence (probably for financial reasons). The authorities did not decide to revoke the licences. Their 'removal' was driven by the manufacturers.
There are some products that have been removed for health or environmental reasons, it is convenient for the manufacturers to hide behind this smoke screen.
Isn't that what I said ??? Manufacturers either decide they are not making enough money out of a product to bother with the licensing fees, or they get told it is banned by the powers that be. They don't voluntarily impose a self made ban on lines they want to carry on selling.
As far as I know Bayer haven't released a new product to replace the Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control, so they either find it unprofitable to produce or they see all copper based products seem to be going the same way and so they are flogging a dead horse with this one.
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Sorry, my comments were more directed to others who are of the opinion that the products are banned due to health or environmental reasons.
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As far as I know Bayer haven't released a new product to replace the Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control.....
Yet still suggest its use on their website. ::)