Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Chatting => Equipment Shed => Topic started by: SimonH on February 06, 2007, 16:04
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I have an old Landmaster 88 machine which has been giving sterling service. However, I now can not get any sign of life out of it. I have changed the fuel and the plug, but do not seem to be getting any sign of a spark. Has anyone any ideas?
Regards
Simon
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which engine is it ?..
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I will check tonight
Thanks
Simon
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It is a Landmaster Super 88 with a Briggs and Straton 3HP easy spin engine. I have had the back cover with the starting cord off and the ignition lead looks reasonable, but from the look of it I can't see how to replace it anyway.
Any help appreciated
Regards
Simon
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If it was running ok when you last used it. Put it in the green house to warm up and dry out. Fill the tank with fresh petrol in a couple of days and it shold be fine. :wink:
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if it says "magnetron" its an electronic ignition model.
a 88 may very well be old enough to have points, and they may be damp, or have corroded.
if it is a points model, you will find them under the flywheel which is keyed onto a tapred shaft. to get to the flywheel you need to remove the engine cover ( normally 3 or 4 3/8ths bolts )
check beforehand that the engine cutout wire is not shorting out on the engine casing ect, it does happen sometimes and it may save you a longer job if it is!
cant remember the points gap at present (years since i had to fit some ), but for some reason, 18 thou sticks in my mind.
good luck, let me know how you get on. :wink:
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Hi Gwiz, thanks for that. When I took the back cover off to check the ingnition lead, the end of the ingnition lead went into a small fitting that then had two contacts sitting ontop of the flywheel ( I think that's what it was anyway). It looked to me (being non-technical) that the flywheel spinning generated the spark with these two contacts. Does that make any sense?
I should think it has to be at least 30 years old.
Regards
Simon
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yep. sounds likeyou are describing the coil, which has two arms to it. it is made up of laminated strips of metal.
the arms must not touch the flywheel, there should be an air gap between the arms and the flywheel approximately the thickness of a thumb nail.
is there a wire running from the coil to under the flywheel? if so, you have points under there which may need looking at.
how old is the spark plug? not the same age as the machine i hope! :lol:
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The plug is new as is the fuel. How do I get to the points? Do I have to take the flywheel off?
Thanks for your help,
Simon
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is the starter cup on top of the flywheel? it has a mesh screen on it held on by two 4ba bolts (small). the starter cup fits into the center of the recoil starter pulley.
if you have one of these, it unscrews in the normal direction. you should have a special tool that undos this without damaging the mechanism. if you dont have the tool, it can be done very carefully with a lage puipe wrench, but this is NOT recomended.
however you decide to take it off, be very carefull. the cap of the starter mechanism will pop off after you have removed the two small 4ba bolts, have a tray under the starter before you pop the cap off, as it has about 5 large ball bearings in it, and you WILL lose one if you aren`t prepared beforehand.
the flywheel is now on a tapered shaft, but has a woodruff key that sets the position for the timing.
i find that a short sharp tap with a rawhide mallet on the cast iron part of the flywheel will usually loosen it up enough for it to lift off.
DONT IN ANY WAY TAP THE SHAFT. if you do you will have problems fitting the starter cup back on later.
assuming that the flywheel has now come off, you will now see an alluminium round cover that is held on by another couple of 4ba bolts/screws. remove these, lift of the cover and you will see the points.
these are made up of the moving part that is operated by a fibre push rod, and a larger static part that looks like a cylinder with a nipple on the top. the wire from the coil is fixed to the top of the nipple by a spring.
the larger cylinder is the condensor. chances are, all you need to do is give the faces of the points set a clean with some fine emery cloth, reset the gap and reasemble. if you go down the new points route, dont forget to give them a quick clean with the emery cloth to take off the protective layer (or you wont get a spark )
hope this helps.
if you get stuck give me a shout, you can pm me if you like with your phone number, i will talk you though it on the phone.
all the best
graham
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I have had a good look at the engine today. I have taken the starter unit off and removed the two contacts (presumably the coil?)that sit on top of the flywheel, which I think acts as a magneto. I have cleaned those and put them back with a 10thou gap. There do not appear to be any points. It seems to me that the timing of the spark is determind by the flywheel as there are low spots on it which would break the spark. The coil is a sealed unit and the ingition lead comes out of it.
Does this make any sense?
I have looked at the B & S website to see if I could download a manual, but I would need the engine model number and there is not an engine plate anywhere with that information.
Anyone got any ideas??
Regards
Simon
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have a look at the engine cowling. briggs always stamp the engine numbers into the metal. you wont find a seperate plate with the numbers on.
on engines with a horizontal crankshaft, you would usually find the numbers stamped into the cowling near the spark plug.
hope this helps.
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Thanks Graham,
I now have the engine off the frame and on the workbench I have found a number, most of it readable, but might be enough to download a manual. I now see what you mean about the starter cup. I am about to remove that (being careful about the bearings!) and will see wherre I go from there.
Will keep you posted
Thanks for your help
Simon
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there are B&S small engine manuals availale here
http://briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=78485
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Thanks Muntjac, I fond the manual for my engine (80301#) but it does not go into much detail. I have taken the flywheel off and checked and cleaned the points (20thou gap) but still no spark. The only thing left is that I am not sure what gap there should be between the coil contacts and the flywheel if any. At the moment it is about 10thou. Is that too much or not enough?
Otherwise, I shall have to give up!!
Regards
Simon
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daft question have you checked the ht lead will carry a current .?. ie gap if that is what it was before and the nuts were tight i cannot see that changing ,check through all the small items ? a cracked plug lead etc? also go to small engine secrets website , address below on my site its a yank site and they may have a helpfull tip or 2 for ya
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J?ust a public vote of thanks to Gwiz for his help. In the end it needed a new condenser/points. Running well now thanks to Gwiz and his helpful advice.
Regards
Simon
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no problem, simon, i have ben very happy to help, and am well chuffed that " we " have got it going again :D
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Hi, today I have taken ownership of a B&S engined rotovater, product number 0647327 32, Batch 8046. I have no spark and the engine is exactly as described in this thread. I have removed the flywheel and ther is a gap between the condenser point and the moving point. Unfortunately the pivoted contact does not move as the fibre thing that pushes the moving contact does not move when the engine is turned over. Is the cam that operates it inside the crankcase and do I need to split it to get the contact pusher to work, or is my thinking incorrect?
Thank for your help.
Richard
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Hi bedspread & welcome to the forum.
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Hi, today I have taken ownership of a B&S engined rotovater, product number 0647327 32, Batch 8046. I have no spark and the engine is exactly as described in this thread. I have removed the flywheel and ther is a gap between the condenser point and the moving point. Unfortunately the pivoted contact does not move as the fibre thing that pushes the moving contact does not move when the engine is turned over. Is the cam that operates it inside the crankcase and do I need to split it to get the contact pusher to work, or is my thinking incorrect?
Thank for your help.
Richard
welcome to you.
the cam is a machined part of the crankshaft, it isnt a seperate part.
i would think that the fibre pushrod has just got stuck, it would be a good idear just to replace it.it won't break the bank. while you've got the thing apart, you may as well replace the points just to be on the safe side.
a word of warning about the pushrod is that you will notice that it has a groove cut into it. you MUST put the new one in the same way around. if you don't it acts like an oil pump and WILL fill the points chamber with oil.
if you want to reuse the pushrod it should be 21.1 mm long.
its curious that on your engine it isnt moving. that tends to suggest that your rotovator hasn't been runn for "a little while"
good luck with sorting it out. :wink:
have you said hello in the welcome section yet? go on, don't be shy.
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Thanks Gwiz for the prompt reply. I will write in the welcome section.
you are correct in that my friend bought some land and in the shed was the rotovator, not run for 5-10 years I guess, but turns over OK and has compression. It is one without pulley guards and has a handlebar cable to move the idler pulley to disengage engine. I will try and carefully remove the existing pushrod without breaking it off in the hole and replace if necessary.
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GWiz, engine now running very well after your advice, it was a tight points pushrod, thanks.
Next problem is that the belt drives the driven pulley so that the tines revolve even when the idler wheel is not touching the belt. any suggestions anyone?
(I have done an introduction on the intro page)
Thanks,
Richard
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GWiz, engine now running very well after your advice, it was a tight points pushrod, thanks.
Next problem is that the belt drives the driven pulley so that the tines revolve even when the idler wheel is not touching the belt. any suggestions anyone?
(I have done an introduction on the intro page)
Thanks,
Richard
is the engine able to be moved forwards or backwards to give the belt a bit of slack? some times the mounting bolt holes are actually slots.
belt could be u/s (srunken over time- i know, strange, but can happen)
or the belt could have been replaced with the wrong one in the past.
have we decided what machine this is yet? i dont recognise the numbers you posted earlier.
another thing to look at is the engine drive pulley, if its rusted it will tend to grab the belt and turn it regardless of what the idler wheel is doing, likewise check all other pulleys.
you may well find you have to clean them up with some fine emery cloth so they go shiny, rather than red with rust. if you go down this route, for god's sake be carefull how you do it.emery cloth glued to a thin flat stick is my prefered way.DON'T just hold it against the pulley with your hand. you were born with five fingers to a hand (most are) be a shame to lose a couple at this late stage of the game eh?
you may find that is all you need to do. :wink:
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My Landmaster is still going strong, but I am thinking it this autumn. Would anyone want the Landmasterfor spares etc? It is still in working order.
regards
Simon
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Hello SimonH, I am hoping to acquire a Landmaster88 with what sound like the same problems you faced. Any tips would be welcome. I have seen the spark coil outside the flywheel which I presume means that there's no points, but wonder whether that is correct. I have a handbook but the illustration of the engine is so small I cannot really make out the details.
Do you still have your working machine going begging?
Hope to hear back, I am rubbish at these forums and unsure how to respond!
Peter Potter
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Sorry to be picking up on an old thread, but I had the same issues with spark on a recently acquired super 88. I followed all the advice on here and spark is now back! BUT .... Fuel issues. It seems to start and run for a short time, 3/4 seconds then dies! Throttle makes no difference. I am quite mechanically minded and have cleaned carb inside, but no luck. Any ideas?? Oh, and I'm a new member!!
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crud in the tank blocking the in tank filter? check flow from the pipe from the tank, check the breather hole in the filler cap, as negative pressure will stop fuel flow. check that the float valve isnt sticking. check the holes and paths through the carb, I generally squirt carb cleaner through all the jets and holes to make sure they are clear.
Grendel