Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: Sarah Doran on October 01, 2020, 09:48

Title: Broad beans
Post by: Sarah Doran on October 01, 2020, 09:48
I live in the south of England and want to do an autumn sowing of broad beans. Recommendations for best variety please, and do I just sow them out as I would a spring sowing? Thanks
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: wighty on October 01, 2020, 15:56
I usually grow Aquadulce which seem to overwinter here okay.  I usually start them off in the greenhouse in pots until about 3" tall and then plant out.  If the weather turns really nasty (very seldom here on the Island) we have a large cloche which we put over them but have not had to use it this past three or four years.   Welcome to the site by the way.  Someone else will come along in a minute and tell you I do it all wrong, that's what usually happens! :D
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: CHRISDONOHUE on October 02, 2020, 16:30
In the south of England, you can sow either Aquadulce or Aquadulce Claudia directly in the soil 2" deep, 9" apart in rows 12" apart.   Or, if you expect not all to germinate, 6" apart and then transplant if too many come up.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Tenhens on October 02, 2020, 17:16
Concur with the previous posts on variety , I'm planting direct to ground and have in previous years used loo roles to mark where the seeds are. Not tried planting on. One of my favourite veg provided you pick them young .  Good luck.
Title: Re: Broad bean
Post by: bayleaf on October 02, 2020, 18:55
Aquadulce are okay. However if your plot is exposed and prone to gales then The Sutton is another option. It's a dwarf whereas Aqaudulce isn't so it survives better on windy sites. B
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Dan1957 on October 02, 2020, 20:59
Anyone got any particular recommendations for northern growers?
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: CHRISDONOHUE on October 03, 2020, 00:43
It is slightly too risky for northern growers to attempt to grow Autumn crops since it is slightly too cold for even hardy varieties to get through a cold winter - they will rot.   The best policy for them is to raise under cover and transplant early in the season when the soil begins to warm up, but you are looking for crops in July rather than the May to June you can get Autumn-sown beans in the south.   In some mild winters you may succeed to sow in Autumn but failure is quite costly unless you have kept your own seed and are willing to take a risk and still sow knowing that you can get a later crop by sowing in the spring.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: bayleaf on October 03, 2020, 07:56
Yes CD is right. Autumn showings rarely work up north. Better is to start in pots in greenhouse in Feb and then transplant out after a month as it starts warming up.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Christine on October 03, 2020, 08:54
I've tried and I'm only in the north east. I'd say wait till spring with seeds. Better the money in your pocket than the seeds rotting in the ground.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Yorkie on October 03, 2020, 12:40
If you still want to have a go despite the posts above  :D then the varieties mentioned already by others (Aq Claudia and The Sutton) are OK up north.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Nobbie on October 03, 2020, 12:44
I may throw in some aquadulce and pop a cloche over them when the weather turns bad. No other use for the cloches at this time. Won’t put it on too early as otherwise the seedlings will probably get too soft.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: rowlandwells on October 03, 2020, 17:15
we usually grow a green bean so next  year its going to be masterpiece green i don't know if that variety would be ok for autumn sowings?

i did try growing another variety about a couple of years ago in the greenhouse but the mice had a field day taking the lot i suspect growing broad beans to overwinter has the advantage of being a bit earlier than spring sown and from overwintering broad beans outdoors is there a risk of winter kill?

i know my farmer friends sow agricultural beans to overwinter and they seem to crop well but then again there field grown and in acres not poles


Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Yorkie on October 04, 2020, 14:07
Just looked at my catalogue and it doesn't say that Masterpiece is an autumn variety
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: CHRISDONOHUE on October 04, 2020, 17:49
I agree with Yorkie on the variety.   Up north, it is a risk even with Aquadulce or Aquadulce Claudia and the odds are steeper with other varieties not known to be especially hardy.   But if you have plenty of seeds and want to try, in some years you will succeed.   I would not want to discourage you experimenting.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: missmoneypenny on October 05, 2020, 21:02
Anyone here rates Bunyard’s exhibition? I have had disappointing results with autumn sowed Aquadulce and good results ( admittedly only tried once) with B.E. I am in London.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: CHRISDONOHUE on October 07, 2020, 23:34
I grew Bunyard's Exhibition this spring which cropped well but would be loath to sow it in the Autumn as it is not known to be especially hardy.   Your location favours Autumn sowing and I would not want to discourage you from experimenting sowing BE this Autumn (either later this month or next month) if you have plenty of spare seed or would not be disappointed if you lose the whole crop.   Sowing Aquadulce or Aquadulce Claudia should be largely trouble free for Autumn sowing.   Sow 2" deep 6" apart in double rows 12" apart and transplant to 9" apart if too many come up.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Blewit on October 08, 2020, 08:25
I grow autumn sown Aquadulce Claudia but with some wind protection as it's an exposed plot. (Aquadulce Claudia are sold as being slightly hardier than Aquadulce). I used to grow Sutton Dwarf but found they still did better behind the wind breaks so might as well have the higher yield of the taller variety.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Dan1957 on October 08, 2020, 21:54
I've been away so only just seen replies to the question about varieties for northern growers. Thanks to all: I haven't got a lot of space so I think I'll wait and start some off in the greenhouse in Feb.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: AnneB on October 09, 2020, 07:54
I've been away so only just seen replies to the question about varieties for northern growers. Thanks to all: I haven't got a lot of space so I think I'll wait and start some off in the greenhouse in Feb.
I too have had difficulties with standard broad beans in the north.   Instead, can I suggest growing "Wizard" Field beans, whether sown in the autumn, which I do, or in the spring.   I got mine from Real Seeds and also Tucker's Seeds but save my own - they do cross readily but not many people grow standard broad beans on our site, a lot of them grow field beans now.
They taste the same as broad beans, but are smaller in size.   They grow to the same height as standard broad beans but the overall yield is far higher with Wizard.   They are also less prone to chocolate spot and blackfly.  They are very hardy.
Do give them a try.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Pimento on October 18, 2020, 17:45
I’m in the north (Yorkshire) and I’ve had more success the last three years with De Monica than I’ve ever had with Aquadulce, planting seeds straight into the ground as late as November. Having said that, a lot of seeds still fail and the difference in harvest time between autumn- and spring-sown crops is so small that it barely makes a difference. Not really worth it, in my opinion - I haven’t bothered this year.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Pimento on October 18, 2020, 17:50
I agree with AnneB too, Wizard field beans are a great alternative/addition to broad beans. I’ve had great yields and they taste just the same.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: bayleaf on October 19, 2020, 22:28
I agree about De Monica. I have grown these well in Lancashire but I will not be sowing until late February at the earliest.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: CHRISDONOHUE on October 20, 2020, 01:47
According to the RHS AGM list, de Monica , Masterpiece Green Longpod and The Sutton are hardy to 1C, while  Aquadulce and Aquadulce Claudia are hardy to -15C.   This may not change your mind in pursuing with de Monica if you have previously had success with it, but may influence others who might otherwise consider it winter-hardy.
The advantage of Autumn sowing in warmer climates is that the plants have much longer to develop and should produce a better crop, they tend to avoid blackfly and the earliness can be quite significant, cropping from mid May to mid June depending on the weather rather than the second week of July.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: New shoot on October 20, 2020, 08:01
According to the RHS AGM list, de Monica , Masterpiece Green Longpod and The Sutton are hardy to 1C, while  Aquadulce and Aquadulce Claudia are hardy to -15C.   This may not change your mind in pursuing with de Monica if you have previously had success with it, but may influence others who might otherwise consider it winter-hardy.

I think Pimento did say there were a lot of seed failures planting de Monica in autumn and the difference sowing early made was not worth it. Bayleaf also recommended waiting.  The one that was agreed on that would cope with northern winters was Wizard field beans.

I do well with those down here in the south as well and don’t bother trying to overwinter standard broad beans any more.  If you start in pots under cover in February, you can catch a standard broad bean crop up down here, without the winter losses.

Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Pimento on October 20, 2020, 08:37
Thanks,  yes, I did indeed say that. As we all know, gardening is a serendipitous business with lots of local peculiarities - what works for one person won’t necessarily work for another, and indeed it may not even work for the same person twice!  :D

However, lots of people do enjoy experimenting, and my own experience is that RHS recommendations are often not over-arching. any more than the instructions on the back of a seed packet apply to all conditions. If we all give honest feedback, then hopefully we  increase our shared knowledge and people can make up their own minds what they’d like to try.  :)
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: New shoot on October 20, 2020, 12:34
Serendipitous is the word alright  :lol:

I have not grown de Monica at all, but I know at least 1 plot holder on our site overwintered Aquadulce successfully a year or so ago. Most of us have tried and failed a couple of times, then given up.

My old faithful Wizard are in the ground on the plot.  My broad bean experiment next year is to sow Karmazyn in Jan/Feb in the greenhouse to plant out. I read about these pink seeded beans in John’s diary and promptly nicked the idea, but will it work for me? Fingers crossed, but worth an experiment for sure  :)
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: CHRISDONOHUE on October 20, 2020, 13:02
Notwithstanding Pimento's current position regarding Autumn sowing, her earlier statement that she has had more success with Autumn-sown de Monica than Aquadulce may lead the man on the Clapham omnibus to conclude that de Monica is at least equal to Aquadulce in hardiness.
I totally agree with her experiential approach, her slight scepticism of the views of august authorities and her willingness to acknowledge diversity of opinion.
Wizard beans seem indeed to be winter-hardy but they are much smaller than broad beans, most people have not yet tried them, they are more expensive to buy and are much less widely available to buy.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: AnneB on October 20, 2020, 17:05
Notwithstanding Pimento's current position regarding Autumn sowing, her earlier statement that she has had more success with Autumn-sown de Monica than Aquadulce may lead the man on the Clapham omnibus to conclude that de Monica is at least equal to Aquadulce in hardiness.
I totally agree with her experiential approach, her slight scepticism of the views of august authorities and her willingness to acknowledge diversity of opinion.
Wizard beans seem indeed to be winter-hardy but they are much smaller than broad beans, most people have not yet tried them, they are more expensive to buy and are much less widely available to buy.
The individual beans themselves maybe smaller but your overall yield will be many times greater than with standard broad beans and those that have tasted them can assure everyone the taste is very good indeed.  I don't think the price is much different to other types of standard broad bean seed from what I can see, although admittedly they are only available mainly from Real Seeds.  However, I got my first supply from Tucker's Seeds in Devon sold as a green manure, sadly they do not do mail order any more.   I haven't needed to order any more as I have saved seed every year for the next, so overall the cost has been extremely low.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: Pimento on October 20, 2020, 17:55
When I’ve grown Wizard the beans have been maybe a bit smaller than standard broad beans, but not massively so. They’re not dear to buy as green manure. One seller on Ebay (admittedly out of stock at the moment) has them for £1.95 for 250g. I don’t think that’s bad at all. Definitely worth a try.
Title: Re: Broad beans
Post by: New shoot on October 21, 2020, 09:22
I save seeds as well, so the cost has been minimal.  Even if you have to buy some to start, they are very hardy and just about every seed you sow grows away.   If you want to sow direct, that is quite a saving over sowing extras to allow for losses.

I agree with the comments about yield as well.  The pods may be smaller, as are the beans, but you get loads.  I like the no-faff aspect as well.  Shove in the soil and let them get on with it. I find they don’t need supporting canes and strings and do shrug off aphid attack and chocolate spot to a large extent, much more so than normal broad beans  :)

I experiment with a few new crops every year, discard some and keep others. These are keepers. I find I can make my own mind up over such things, without worrying too much about what anyone else thinks  :lol: