[DHM]

Morning all! We've had our plot for some 6 weeks now and having dug most of it over, have managed to get a few things in, some swede seeds and established plants such as tomatoes, bell peppers, courgette and cucumber.

However, one thing we've realised is that the soil seems completely dead and without structure. I can only describe its appearance as being like the surface of the moon, grey, dry, heavy and hard. Where I've turned it over its' remained in big clumps and when crushed just turns into a horrid silver powder. When watered it forms puddles quickly. The plants we've put in look quite healthy but don't seem to be growing at all, just sustaining themselves. The tomatoes are way shorter than they should be by now and aren't forming trusses, just the odd tomato here and there.

My question is, do I sow all the stuff I was planning on doing now for autumn and winter and risk disappointment, or simply spend the rest of the year getting the soil into some sort of shape for next year; and if so, how?

My neighbour says there's a guy who will dump a load of manure on the plot in autumn for 30 quid, not horse manure but a mixture of cow manure and something else (he had a name for it but I forget) but even with that I can't see how that could ever integrate with the soil as it's so hard and crappy.

This soil doesn't match common descriptors for soil types so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do with it.

Any advice welcome!

[Nobbie]

Sounds like it might be clay that has dried out in the recent weather. Mine goes very hard and develops big cracks unless I mulch it to keep the water in. Definitely get a load of manure in autumn and spread across the plot, the the worms will gradually drag it down into the soil. You can then just plant through it in the spring and the soil has a mulch to keep the water in.

You may as well sow/plant stuff now as the plot will be empty otherwise.

[DHM]

Thanks Nobbie. You're right in that there's clay onsite, a bed about 1.5 to 2ft down for the most part with a 'ridge' as close at 1ft down in places, but where I've hit the clay and brought a bit up, it's markedly different from the topsoil - though that's not to say the topsoil doesn't contain some clay. The clay layer is squidgy, the topsoil hard and crumbly, one extreme to the other, without any blending of the two layers.

Perhaps a bit of clay has been torn up and integrated into the topsoil when the previous guy has rotavated it, but considering he manured every year apparently, there's no organic matter at all (apart from weed roots).

In terms of having an empty plot, that's not ideal but I worry that there'll be stuff in the ground which would prevent me manuring early enough, given the slow growing of my current crops, I could still have stuff in the ground in December.

[snowdrops]

I would plant things that should be out by the autumn & mulch with whatever you can now & invest in as much manure as you can over the autumn & winter, & let the winter weather do the work for you. Sounds like you might need to be prepared to manure heavily for the next few years. Is the soil on the other plots the same, how do they deal with it,what do they grow, can you ask what the chap before you managed to grow?

[DHM]

Thanks for your reply snowdrops. My neighbours have had their plots for many years (in some cases even generations!) and have worked their soil a lot differently to my predecessor it seems. They just manure each year and get on with it.

The guy before me grew frail so worked increasingly small sections of the plot and even then he supposedly didn't reap much. I'm told he would manure THEN rotavate (part of the problem perhaps) then come spring blanket spray all the weeds.

All the broken glass we've collected was from when his greenhouse blew away one year, through not being tethered to the base. I get the impression he didn't/couldn't do things properly. TBH we'd have picked a different plot if we'd known how atrocious this one was, now we just have to manure like crazy as you say and mulch for moisture retention.

[sunshineband]

It does sound like a clay soil with a hard "pan" underneath that, when you can actually dig, would be worth trying to break up as it will help drainage at time of high rainfall. The powdery bit is where there is a lack of organic matter and the soil has been "worked" for a while to crumble down the structure.
As others have said, manure will be an excellent adiotn and cow manure is a better bet than horse manure tbh as the cow's digective system destroys seeds, unlike horses, so you won't be importing a whole lot of weeds.
If you don't already have compost bins, then do startt setting them up: kitchen waste, shredded paper, lawn cuttings, it'll all rot down quickly in this weather if you keep it nice and damap, and give you a steady supply or that precious organic matter.
Growing what you can now at least means you get a return from the plot. One thing I would say is to focus your soil improvements on the growing areas rather than where you are having paths or a shed. Might sound obvious but if you've not done so you could also begin to get your infrastructure in place too

[snowdrops]

Not wanting to sound like a broken record, take a look ar Charles Dowding’s website about no dig, I’ve gone totally no dig this year & the more I read & experience the more I feel that it will work for any one. The down side is the amount of well rotted compost/ mulch you need but you seem to have sourced that already.id suggest waiting 7 til i5 rains heavily again then get some manure down ASAP on as much of it as you can. Take a look at his ways of creating paths, as like Sunny says you don’t want to be putting masses of effort in to those areas. I have slabbed paths but if I knew then what I do now I’d go with just a mulch on cardboard because of the benefits to the roots of the plants I’m growing.

[Goosegirl]

Looking from where you're posting it could also be alluvial silt which is similar to clay but comes from land being continually invaded by the sea which is what I've got here in my garden. Get whatever organic stuff you can find including mushroom compost which should be quite cheap, then as you dig, incorporate some sharp sand and grit to help the soil structure and drainage.   

[rowlandwells]

your problem is basically the same as I have if I don't turn the ground over in the winter come spring it very hard to get good cultivation I would never sow seed in that ground al my seed is bench grown and razed before planting out

I asked the so called professional gardeners at a local garden forum that was a waste of time because they couldn't give me a proper answer so I decided to try my own thing and like that has been said I plastered one plot with manure and ploughed the manure in and bingo it worked the plot I planted with veg except potatoes proved very good cultivation and it stayed loose no capping just went between the rows with my mantis to weed and clean

i need to manure  my other plot this year again because the ground does seem hungry for manure i use horse manure but as said cow manure is best i was always told you must put back what you take out the ground maure you can't beet it as soon as we get some rain i will be sowing some green manure don't know if its as good as animal manure though 


anyway thats what i did to overcome my soil problem if thats of any help

[DHM]

Thanks everyone for your detailed responses, very much appreciated. 

I was offered the use of a mantis for the whole plot but the site 'expert' said that wouldn't be any good on my soil because it would just make it even powderier (?) and also that green manure wouldn't be a good option either but I did consider that at one stage.

Looks like the way forward is cow dodo, mushroom compost and sharp sand and lots of it. I did some reading up on no-dig and actually I like the concept, the only downside is sourcing that much compost on our tiny budget! One to bear in mind for the future.

We've divided the plot so we have 4x 18ftx11ft 'zones' for growing, that's all we're digging and manuring; there's already a 3ft raised grass path down the middle which will stay, and a shed already in situ. There'll be an 'admin' area with compost bins (have acquired 2 so far) an area for plastic greenhouses and the rest is allocated as a family area to relax in and for the kids to grow stuff in. These areas at least for now will probably be paved for low maintenance.

Alluvial silt is interesting; todays research has revealed indeed my town ended up half chalk, half alluvial at the end of the ice age, so i may have a mix of that and clay. One would have thought that with the eons that had passed and at least a hundred years of cultivation that the top 1-2 ft of ground would be different now... perhaps not! Thanks again for replying, nkw I have some hope!

[mumofstig]

Some soils do set like concrete at times, like now! Here there is a small window in Autumn or Spring when the soil is perfect for digging/forking over, not too wet nor too dry. I always try to fork all the beds over in Autumn and then layer as much organic material as I can on my potato bed and the squash bed. As the beds rotate, each gets organic material added to it roughly every third year.
As I don't drive I can't collect free horse manure and it is quite expensive to get delivered in quantity, so I mostly rely on homemade compost (5 daleks) and an occasional bulk delivery shared with other plot holders
The more the merrier though, I agree
Something else that helps keep the soil moist is a plastic woven weed control fabric, it allows rainfall through but stops some of it from evaporating, very useful if you can't mulch

[JayG]

We never seem to get anyone on here boasting about how they've got the perfect loamy soil! 

My sandy soil needs annual additions of compost, additional fertilisers and a lot of watering because the top 6-9" is quick to dry out, and quick to lose its nutrients by leaching - it also happens to be the soil zone where most annual crops are trying to grow. 

Your soil, whether alluvial or clay (or both) is potentially much more fertile than mine will ever be, so don't despair. 

[Plot 1 Problems]

My soil is exactly as you described and I've had to amend it with literally tons of organic material!
One other tip, if possible is to never walk on the beds you are going to grow in, it really helps reduce the compaction of the soil. I've got woodchipped paths in between marked/ raised beds and it's helped no end.

[DHM]

Mumofstig- are you referring to horticultural fleece?

Me and my wife had a chat last night and we've decided to go ahead and finish sowing what we've already bought (Swiss Chard, beetroot and radishes) so we at least have something to show for the hard work we've put in, and leave it at that. By autumn the tomatoes, peppers, courgette, potatoes and cucumbers will be out so if the late stuff is growing ok we'll manure/compost/sand around it, otherwise pull it up and manure the lot. This will give us time to work on readying the rest of the allotment, tackling the non-growing areas too. By next spring the whole plot should be ready to rock.

Thanks to you guys for instilling some confidence in our allotment, we thought that soil would take years to get in shape but it seems poor soil is a lot more common than initially thought. I'll keep you posted!

[snowdrops]

Have you started a diary on here & comments thread. It’s good to record your progress & take lots of photos for when the going gets tough, you can look back & see how far you’ve come. I put a link in my signature line so it’s easy to take a look