Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: londongardener on November 23, 2007, 09:46

Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: londongardener on November 23, 2007, 09:46: My front garden is south facing. Is it possible to grow a grape vine against the wall ? If so how do you fix it ? Could I just put nails in the wall and tie it to the nails.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: brucesgirl on November 23, 2007, 16:20: Oh so glad you posted this. I have no answers but I have just taken delivery of a grapevine and need to know the same things. Mine will be up a trellis against a brick wall, where I used to grow the runner beans before I got the allotment.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: gobs on November 23, 2007, 16:23: Almost asked you, what was your location! :roll: :lol:

Yes. of course you can, but you probably will be better off with some more serious support, quite often used are screw eyes(I hope that is the right term) with strong wire.

Decide upon a shape(training system) that fits your space, windows, and consult a good nursery what variety they have suitable for that situation. :)
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: Contadino on November 23, 2007, 16:28: The wire will probably need to be strong, and galvanised. Some varieties (all the ones I've had involvement with) are tenacious * that will destroy thin stuff. My rule of thumb - if you can cut it with normal pliers, it's not strong enough for more than a year or two.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: gobs on November 23, 2007, 16:37: And what do you think of Bruces' trellis, Contadino, won't that just be in way of pruning and then in years time, I can't see it working, if it's trellis I'm picturing.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: richyrich7 on November 23, 2007, 19:52: You need it to go on vine eyes, and heavy gauge wire to hold it away from the wall. and away you go.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: Scribbler on November 24, 2007, 11:34: Yes - vine eyes and heavy wire just the job. Correctly installed they will last forever. They're pointed pieces of galvanised metal with a hole in the end. You hammer them into the brickwork and thread wire through the holes.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: brucesgirl on November 24, 2007, 19:47: So my trellis won't be any good? It stands about 3" proud of the wall.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: gobs on November 24, 2007, 19:54: 3 feet proud of the wall is a lot better than I thought, but there is always strength and structure, imagine taming Wisteria. You need the fruiting laterals about a foot apart tied in or led in whichever way.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: Contadino on November 25, 2007, 07:34: I don't grow runner beans, but AFAIK they don't need a huge amount of support. I use galvanised wire (5x7cm mesh) for growing climbing french beans, and when they're done I just bung the whole piece of mesh on the bonfire and then reuse it (when it's cooled down.)

The problems with vines are two-fold. Firstly, they're tough and can literally pull a trellis apart, and secondly, they're perennial so you have to use the trellis year after year. Pruning the vines takes an eternity unless the trellis is really solid, cos you can actually pull it apart taking away the years growth.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: gobs on November 25, 2007, 07:42: Thanks for that, just along the lines I was thinking. They live for decades and can grow massive even with pruning. I just thought that the trellis wold come apart...
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: brucesgirl on November 25, 2007, 17:36: Oh blimey - I had to plant it because I've had it a week and the only daylight I saw was this morning before starting the dreaded Christmas shopping.
If it pulls the trellis apart I'll plead ignorance and OH can fix it!
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: gobs on November 25, 2007, 19:07: Oh no, it's gonna come apart in a way that it can't be fixed, if that doesn't put your mind at rest, it won't happen tomorrow. And you do have plenty of time to think of and erect a suitable framework for its long life, before it becomes huge. :)
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: brucesgirl on November 26, 2007, 08:45: I have a cunning plan! I will leave it on the trellis till this time next year, then when it starts getting unruly I will say 'why don't we put a clematis on that trellis and take the grapevine down to the allotment?'
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: gobs on November 26, 2007, 09:46: :wink: :lol:

A guy here made a frame for his grape out of tree trunks and brunches, apart from solid it is also beautiful.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: Contadino on November 26, 2007, 20:12: Quote from: "brucesgirl"
I have a cunning plan! I will leave it on the trellis till this time next year, then when it starts getting unruly I will say 'why don't we put a clematis on that trellis and take the grapevine down to the allotment?'

Oh I hate to poo-poo such a cunning plan, but I see three shortfallings.

1. The hole you'll have to dig to get the vine out will likely be huge. Maybe a digger job.

2. If you leave even the smallest bit of root in the soil, you'll be 'blessed' with new vines cropping up for years.

3. After a year, I reckon the trellis will follow you down to the lotty.
Title: Grapes against the wall
Post by: brucesgirl on November 26, 2007, 20:50: Oh no - I am really worried now! Anyone want to buy a house?? Its got a nice garden
:!:

Perhaps I will just move it after Christmas, and in the meantime build a frame for it on the allotment. One of the men down there has his plot as a vineyard so will have a look at what he has done and copy that.